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This thread is for tropers who have trouble with English and would like some help with the crazy grammar of this crazy language.

Write down what you wish to edit on the wiki. If you have been suspended from editing, another troper might be kind enough to edit for you after your suggestions have been corrected.

The thread is for help and feedback on your own suggested edits.

If you want help correcting other people's edits (e.g., if you find a page which seems to have grammar problems but want a second opinion, or you don't feel able to fix it by yourself) then that's off-topic here, but we have a separate Grammar Police cleanup thread that can provide assistance.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 16th 2023 at 5:37:57 PM

SetsunasaNiWa Parole Model Since: Apr, 2015
Parole Model
#2251: Oct 28th 2015 at 12:13:58 PM

@andrew369

For Love Live funny section
  • Episode 9, Season 1:
    • When μ's visits an idol shop, they happen to notice one of their members, Kotori in a maid outfit, asking the shopkeeper to remove the maid picture of her. When confronting her, Kotori is surprised that they're there and tries to lie her way out by acting like a foreigner. Cue to Eli's face expression.
a) Let others interject, if I'm wrong, but I think that's a wrong use of "cue". It being followed by "to", to be precise. Something can serve as a cue to somebody (here "cue" = "signal"). When "cue" is used as a verb, I see it being used like this "cue <something that happens or appears>", without "to". And another option is "cue" being mistaken for "cut". To cut to something happening or appearing is fine, as long as it is factually indeed a cut in the original work.

b) Who confronts whom? The "when confronting her" introductory clause lacks its own subject, therefore subject of the main clause (Kotori) is the one who confronts some "her" from the introductory clause. And since μ's is referred to as plural ("they happen to..."), then the "her" who is confronted by Kotori can only be the shopkeeper. That's the current state of sentence structure.

Obviously, that's not what the author had in mind. To avoid that, to not let the misattribution of actions cause a domino effect, the clauses need to be watched out for.

Compare "When confronting her, Kotori does something" with

  • "When confronted, Kotori does something"
  • "When they confront Kotori, she does something"
  • "Kotori confronts her and does something"
  • "While someone confronts her, Kotori does something"
  • "She does something while being confronted by Kotori"

The point is, not too much change is needed to turn actors and actions distribution upside-down. And to misattribute the actions is like removing a cornerstone from the message. I know the right details, because of knowing something about the series, but even then, for me to say "I understood you" would mean giving such kind of leeway that you're not supposed to have when contributing to wikis.

c) What is the funny moment supposed to be there? Several events and interactions are described, no priority is given to any.

  • After her 'act', Kotori quickly runs away from them while Honoka and Umi chase after her. She manages to escape using her own shortcut and assumes that no one can catch her. That is until Nozomi appears right behind her, warning her not to run or she'll punish her.

This relies on previous example in the list. What if someone inserts an example between the two or rephrases the first example of the two to the point that neither "act", nor "them" could be interpreted as references to certain entities. Remember This Is A Wiki, as How to Write an Example says.

  • Episode 2, Season 2: When μ's enters Maki's family summer villa for practice, the girls happen to notice the fireplace and intend to light a fire. However Maki tells them not to as she believes that Santa Claus will have a hard time coming down the chimney. This causes Nico to crack up about her belief but before she can say anything her friends stop her from destroying Maki's belief, while Maki is puzzled by her friends' action.

In the "This causes Nico to crack up about her belief" part — the "her" part could mean "Nico's". I'd expect your first reaction could be "Of course it's about Maki. It can't be about Nico, otherwise I naturally wouldn't have written things this way."

Nonononono. No one should ever play along with that, This time, you can even check the continuing sentence. There's the whooping "she", another "her" and yet ANOTHER "her", and even yet another "her". And those are supposed to refer to Nico, then Nico or Maki or combination of the two?, then Nico, then Nico/combination of the two?.. In light of that, sorry, it should be plain ridiculous to expect first "her" in the sentence to be taken faithfully and just as intended. The world of fiction has infinite possibilities and the same "her" could really refer to Nico there. The work would just have to have a different plot detail at that point. Therefore it's important to write to convey unambiguous facts.

Otherwise problematic, but a step to eliminate ambiguity would be "This causes Nico to crack up about Maki's belief but before Nico can say anything, other girls stop her, while puzzled Maki watches them."

  • Episode 3, Season 2: The girls in μ's are invited by A-RISE, μ's school idol rival, to UTX High School. Upon meeting with them A-RISE lists everyone's skill sets and strength. What is Nico's? A-RISE thanks her for sending them flowers in the past and comments she's the little imp in the group.

Wouldn't just "strength" here strongly imply physical, role-playing games STR-attribute kind of strength? (talking about "Skill sets" pushes in that direction) Wouldn't "strong points" or "strengths" be better?

  • Love Live! Movie:
    • After coming back from New York, when the girls realize that μ's is popular across Japan, Nico daydreams that she's giving her usual signature Catch Phrase to her fans. However instead of her usual "Nico-Nico-ni!" Catch Phrase, she says "Nico-Nico-Nui~!" while the rest of the girls look at her, puzzled at Nico's actions.

It fails to explain what could be funny about saying "Nui" instead of "Ni" (or "Nii").

  • Due to being popular μ's, the following day in school Hideko, Mika and Fumika render Honoka bound and gagged, trying to persuade her to reconsider disbanding μ's.

Now it says that Hideko, Mika and Fumika are popular μ's... What exactly did you mean to say? Try simpler sentences, maybe someone would offer a better way to turn them into concise and witty aggregate.


For Manga.Hunter X Hunter
  • Bluff the Impostor: In the middle of anime 2013 remake episode 114, a turncoat Chimera Ant, Ikalgo thanks to his outward disguise seemingly bluffs his way past his former fellows, into the castle underground, planning to look for the missing friend of other attackers of Chimera Ants stronghold. The moment he descends, of the three ants that heard Ikalgo talking — the two non-idiots mentally note that they did actually catch how the infiltrator referred to Leo, another certain officer, by using an obsolete, recently made taboo alias "Hagya-sama". Both work on making Ikalgo's roaming that much harder later in story.

edited 28th Oct '15 2:49:47 PM by SetsunasaNiWa

andrew369 Since: Apr, 2012
#2252: Oct 28th 2015 at 6:29:59 PM

[up]

@ Setsunasa Ni Wa

Hmm... point taken on above. I'll might change it later. Need Arivne to check with this too even though my sentence is correct.

Just one question : Well I understand you write long winded explanation and I may get it. But can you elaborate in short simple words since I'm trying to understand what you're exactly trying to correct me. No offense though since.

edited 28th Oct '15 6:39:37 PM by andrew369

Arivne Since: Jan, 2001
#2253: Oct 29th 2015 at 4:23:48 AM

^

A few suggestions to resolve these problems.

"When confronting her" -> "When they confront her,"

"Cue to Eli's face expression." -> "Cue Eli's funny facial expression."

"After her 'act', Kotori quickly runs away from them" -> "Kotori quickly runs away from the rest of μ's". Now it doesn't refer to the previous example.

"This causes Nico to crack up about her belief" -> "This causes Nico to crack up..." This removes the question about whose belief it is. With this change, I think the rest of the sentence is fine.

"everyone's skill sets and strength." -> "everyone's skill sets and strengths."

"Due to being popular μ's,": I think this is meant to be something like "Because of the national popularity of μ's".

I missed this earlier:

"render Honoka bound and gagged": The word "render" isn't usually used this way. You can "render" someone unconscious, but not "bound and gagged". I'd change it to "bind and gag Honoka".

edited 29th Oct '15 4:47:56 AM by Arivne

andrew369 Since: Apr, 2012
#2254: Oct 29th 2015 at 8:09:33 AM

[up]

For Love Live funny section

  • Episode 9, Season 1:

    • When μ's (minus Kotori who skips practice early) visits an idol shop in Akihabara, they happen to see Kotori again, only that she's in her maid outfit, asking the shopkeeper to remove the picture of her in a maid outfit note . When the girls confront her, Kotori is surprised that they're there and tries to lie her way out by acting like a foreigner. Cue to Eli's funny facial expression.
    • Kotori quickly runs away from μ's while Honoka and Umi chase after her. She manages to escape using her own shortcut and assumes that no one can catch her. That is until Nozomi appears right behind her, warning her not to run or she'll punish her.
  • Episode 2, Season 2: When μ's enters Maki's family summer villa for practice, the girls happen to notice the fireplace and intend to light a fire. However Maki tells them not to as she believes that Santa Claus will have a hard time coming down the chimney. This causes Nico to crack up but before she can say anything her friends stop her from destroying Maki's belief, while Maki is puzzled by her friends' action.
  • Episode 3, Season 2: The girls in μ's are invited by A-RISE, μ's school idol rival, to UTX High School. Upon meeting with them A-RISE lists everyone's skill sets and strengths. What is Nico's? A-RISE thanks her for sending them flowers in the past and comments she's the little imp in the group.
  • Love Live! Movie:
    • After coming back from New York, when the girls realize that μ's is popular across Japan, Nico daydreams that she's giving her usual signature Catchphrase to her fans. However instead of her usual "Nico-Nico-ni!" Catchphrase, she says "Nico-Nico-Nui~!" while the rest of the girls look at her, puzzled at Nico's actions.
    • Because μ's has become popular in Japan, the following day in school Hideko, Mika and Fumika bind and gag Honoka while trying to persuade her to reconsider disbanding μ's.

Also regarding this line that I saw in that page:

I've found out that this episode is not on episode 10 but at episode 9 of Season One. Can someone help me relocate it to the correct episode?

What do you think?

edited 3rd Dec '15 11:04:22 PM by andrew369

RabidTanker God-Mayor of Sim-Kind Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
God-Mayor of Sim-Kind
#2255: Oct 29th 2015 at 11:34:47 AM

So yeah, I've made something. Now to reread several "how to English" guides to fill in the rest...

Answer no master, never the slave Carry your dreams down into the grave Every heart, like every soul, equal to break
Arivne Since: Jan, 2001
#2256: Oct 30th 2015 at 4:03:00 AM

^^

"Because μ's becomes popular in Japan," -> "Because μ's has become popular in Japan,"

"reconsider on not disbanding μ's." -> "reconsider disbanding μ's".

edited 30th Oct '15 4:05:49 AM by Arivne

alexander1a1b Since: Oct, 2015
#2257: Oct 31st 2015 at 6:14:20 PM

hi , i'm a new member here and i would like to request a grammar check on my contribution that i would like to add to the undertale headscratcher section

-More likely it was because Asgore had more will to live or at least felt more obligation to stay alive. Toriel had been living in the ruins by herself for quite a while and had already been left by multiple different children. As you damage her during her boss battle , she slowly realizes that you're just going to leave her like the others , and thus she realizes that she's not going to be able to save any child and accepts her death. Asgore on the other hand, while feeling guilty of the 6 souls death , never actually encountered them face to face and also felt he needed to stay alive to keep the hopes of the underground population up and possibly see his wife again. He may be depressed and a death seeker , but he still clinged to a bit of hope and responsibility , so he was able to survive your attack.

Arivne Since: Jan, 2001
#2258: Nov 1st 2015 at 3:22:22 AM

^

"boss battle" and "death seeker" can be Blue Linked to Boss Battle and Death Seeker.

As you damage her during her boss battle , she slowly realizes that you're just going to leave her like the others , and thus she realizes that she's not going to be able to save any child and accepts her death.

There is no space between a word and a subsequent comma, so "battle ," -> "battle," and "others ," -> "others,".

"she slowly realizes that you're just going to leave her like the others , and thus she realizes that she's not going to be able to save any child and accepts her death." -> "she slowly realizes that you're just going to leave her like the others and that she's not going to be able to save any child, and accepts her death."

Asgore on the other hand, while feeling guilty of the 6 souls death , never actually encountered them face to face and also felt he needed to stay alive to keep the hopes of the underground population up and possibly see his wife again.

As above, "death ," -> "death,".

"while feeling guilty of" should probably be "while feeling guilty about".

If "6 souls death" means "deaths of the six souls", it should have a possessive apostrophe after "souls" and the word "death" should be a plural, like this: "6 souls' deaths".

This is kind of a run-on sentence. It could be split into two sentences like so:

Asgore on the other hand, while feeling guilty about the 6 souls' deaths, never actually encountered them face to face. He also felt he needed to stay alive to keep the hopes of the underground population up and possibly see his wife again.

Now for the last sentence:

He may be depressed and a death seeker , but he still clinged to a bit of hope and responsibility , so he was able to survive your attack.

As above, "seeker ," -> "seeker," and "responsibility ," -> "responsibility,".

"he still clinged" -> "he still clung".

edited 1st Nov '15 3:35:24 AM by Arivne

SetsunasaNiWa Parole Model Since: Apr, 2015
Parole Model
#2259: Nov 1st 2015 at 2:20:05 PM

@#2254: Another point, on "Episode 9, Season 1" first subbulet. If μ's goes to a shop and Kotori is a member of μ's, then Kotori presumably has gone to same shop together with everyone. That is basically a misrepresentation of story (Per plot, she's the only one not going since she went on her own business earlier that day. Rest of the group runs into her while she's wearing an unexpected maid costume in front of some staff member of the shop that the μ's-sans-Kotori chanced upon.). I can't provide an advice how to rephrase because, as was pointed out before, I don't understand what was the intended funny moment.

And short simple words fail me because I haven't seen the addressee sum up any point of previous valid criticism in same short simple words. A display of understanding would help choose better words next time. For that matter, as always, there's a wagonful of misanthropic thoughts, but nevermind.

[up][up] Change "you're" to "player is", and "your" in that last sentence to "player's" at least (late edit: and change other form(s) of "you" respectively). Headscratchers are not forums, entries should be more like an encyclopedia entry, not like a forum post.

Why "at least" was the way I put it? Because the entry seems to be a case of Repair Dont Respond violation. If you're guessing, it should be taken to Wild Mass Guessing tab of the work page. If you're objectively tearing apart a headscratcher, delete it with a good edit reason written on that.

edited 2nd Nov '15 9:56:34 AM by SetsunasaNiWa

andrew369 Since: Apr, 2012
#2260: Nov 1st 2015 at 5:24:36 PM

[up]

Noted and edited.

[up][up][up][up]

Edited that part as well.

alexander1a1b Since: Oct, 2015
#2261: Nov 1st 2015 at 5:27:48 PM

[up][up]@Arivne thank you for your help, will this be acceptible?

-More likely it was because Asgore had more will to live or at least felt more obligation to stay alive. Toriel had been living in the ruins by herself for quite a while and had already been left by multiple different children. As you damage her during her Boss Battle, she slowly realizes that you're just going to leave her like the others, and thus she realizes that she's not going to be able to save any child and accepts her death. Asgore on the other hand, while feeling guilty about the 6 souls' deaths, never actually encountered them face to face. He also felt he needed to stay alive to keep the hopes of the underground population up and possibly see his wife again.He may be depressed and a Death Seeker, but he still clung to a bit of hope and responsibility, so he was able to survive your attack.

Arivne Since: Jan, 2001
#2262: Nov 2nd 2015 at 2:17:46 AM

^ Just this:

"again.He" -> "again. He"

alexander1a1b Since: Oct, 2015
#2263: Nov 2nd 2015 at 2:50:27 PM

[up] oops, missed that one, thank you for your help

andrew369 Since: Apr, 2012
#2264: Nov 2nd 2015 at 5:12:04 PM

So err.. is my edited post correct?

SetsunasaNiWa Parole Model Since: Apr, 2015
Parole Model
#2265: Nov 3rd 2015 at 9:21:29 AM

  • Umi getting excited over no longer being the "only girl with discipline", and Eri seeming rather shocked by it.
I'd like some approval from other tropers on this point. Maybe I'm wrong. Grammar-wise, I think it's because "to seem" is an intransitive verb, that it can not work as if designating a passive voice action. It won't make a participle or gerund with such object control. Unlike transitive "to get". See dictionaries for precisely examples of "seeming".

In other words, in "...and Eri seeming rather shocked by it", the bolded word is not usable in this situation. The meaning could be understood, but that alone doesn't mean proper English.

"...and Eri seems rather shocked by it" would sidestep this grammar problem.

Are you fond of the resulting examples yourself, andrew369? You keep asking to add them if they're fine, but do you feel they're fine?


For Daily Life with Monster Girl:
  • Rack Focus: In the second half of anime episode four, camera focused on Centorea restlessly flexing hand on her sheathed sword then shifts focus to the foreground Miia's literal twiddling of thumbs, when anxious talk regarding newcomer Suu the Slime Girl drifts to the delicate matter of Suu likely visiting illegally and how officials could lash out.

edited 3rd Nov '15 12:53:29 PM by SetsunasaNiWa

andrew369 Since: Apr, 2012
#2266: Nov 3rd 2015 at 5:08:54 PM

[up]

That's nice of you to say but there is one problem...

The Eli line you mention was NOT written by me. It was already there in the Funny page of Love Live. I was only asking if they can change that line to the correct episode since I'm still suspended. The line is actually from Episode 9 of Season 1 instead of Episode 10 of Season 1.

Sorry if I forgotten to add in the additional note. Thanks for reminding me, Setsunasa Ni Wa.

But regarding about the 'fine part', to be honest... who knows. All I can do now is improve my English, hopefully the line I mention gets posted since I'm still waiting for my suspension to be lifted and get on with our lives even it takes me many years for the lines to be posted.

edited 3rd Nov '15 5:20:40 PM by andrew369

Kingofsouls Kingofsouls from EVERYWHERE Since: Jun, 2010
Kingofsouls
#2267: Nov 9th 2015 at 10:13:39 PM

I wish to place these trope for Setback's section of the Characters.Sentinels Of The Multiverse page. I have taken the tropes already on that page and placed them here, so that the entire section can be seen as a single whole.

Setback

Pete Riske was just a blackjack dealer who signed up for some medical trials. Unfortunately for him, it was one of Baron Blade's experiments. Fortunately for Pete, he survived and bulked up a little, and managed to escape because one night the usually locked door was unlocked. However, his luck has recently started to dramatically change from one extreme to the other.

Setback's play style relies on building up a large amount of Unlucky Tokens, a mechanic unique to him, to fuel is myriad healing, damage, and redirection that he has at his disposal, just as long as he has enough when he needs them.

His alternate form is Dark Watch Setback.

  • An Adventurer Is You: Setback falls into the Tank and DPS roles. With his healing and high HP he can tank the classic way. With Wrong Time and Place (and enough Unlucky Tokens) he can turn into an Avoidance Tank by sending damage towards the team to the enemy instead. And when he isn't being a meat shield he can attack and get more tokens to full his healing and attack deflecting.
  • Arch-Enemy: Kismet and Revenant, the latter a minion in Frictions' deck.
  • Auto-Revive: Silver Lining allows Setback to resist a mortal blow by turning all of the Unlucky Tokens he has into HP.
  • Attack Deflector:
    • Inverted and played straight at the same time with Wrong Time and Place. The first time Setback or one of his teammates takes damage it is forced to go to Setback instead, unless he removes enough of his Unlucky Tokens to deflect it to another target.
    • Inverted with Uncharmed Life, which can draw fire towards Setback when he wants to instead of automatically.
  • Butt-Monkey: If anything bad can happen, it usually happens to Setback.
  • Damage Sponge: While not on the level of Legacy, Scholar, or Naturalist, Setback can do a decent job of soaking hits and then healing after.
  • Unluckily Lucky: Setback's luck tends to dance between one extreme and the other at an alarming rate.
  • Expy: Setback is similar to Booster Gold. Both are heroes who tend to bumble around and act unprofessional while on the field.
  • The Fool: While not as clueless as other examples, considering his superpower is an enhanced physique and luck combined, he counts.
  • Friendly Fire: Invoked with Friendly Fire. With it, whenever a hero damages a villain, they have the option of damaging Setback as well in exchange for giving Setback more Unlucky Tokens.
  • The Gambler: Setback's playstyle. Most of his cards require a certain amount of Unlucky Tokens to work correctly, and his base power lets him get a token. He then must play the top card of his deck, which may or may not get his a card he can play, or want to play.
  • Good Old Fisticuffs: Setback's primary damage type is melee, which translates to him punching enemies.
  • Idiot Hero: The art of the cards portrays this, with "Whoops! Sorry!" and Karmic Retribution being the best examples.
  • Shout-Out: Setback's Incapacitated side is a reference to Spider Man No More.
  • Mechanically Unusual Fighter: Unlike any of the other player characters, Setback uses Unlucky Tokens. Many of his cards allow him to add or remove tokens to set up his other cards.
  • Relationship Upgrade: With Ex-Patriette by the time they've formed the Dark Watch.
  • Splash Damage: Friendly Fire turns all of your teammates' attacks into this. If a hero hits a villain for damage, they can do damage to Setback to give him Unlucky Tokens.
  • Unskilled, but Strong: On one hand, Setback isn't very skilled at the finer aspects of being a superhero, usually fumbling around and hoping for the best. On the other hand, he's strong enough to dive tackle into the 320 pound Plague Rat with enough force to send himself and the rat off a building and survive.

edited 10th Nov '15 10:16:12 AM by Kingofsouls

I am a figment of your imagination
Arivne Since: Jan, 2001
#2268: Nov 10th 2015 at 1:54:45 AM

^

"Both are heroes whom tend to bumble around and act unprofessional while on the field."

-> who tend to bumble...

"...with may or may not get his a card he can play..."

-> which may or may not get him...

"The art of the cards portray this"

-> portrays

"all of your teammates attacks"

-> teammates' attacks

Kingofsouls Kingofsouls from EVERYWHERE Since: Jun, 2010
Kingofsouls
#2269: Nov 10th 2015 at 10:35:13 AM

[up]Fixed.

I would like to add this to the Attack Reflector page.

  • Sentinels of the Multiverse has a few cards that do this. Most of them have a restriction.
    • Guise plays it straight with Total Beefcake, and inverts it with X-Treeeeme preventing the villains from redirecting his damage.
    • Baron Blade's Elemental Redistributor reflects fire, cold, and electric damage.
    • Plague Rat's Sewer Friend reflects any damage the environment would do to him to an infected heroes.

edited 10th Nov '15 11:32:35 AM by Kingofsouls

I am a figment of your imagination
ConservativePip Since: Feb, 2015
#2270: Nov 10th 2015 at 12:43:03 PM

Can I be unbanned from editing now? I suggested a edit to Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt I felt was appropriate for the show.

edited 10th Nov '15 12:43:27 PM by ConservativePip

andrew369 Since: Apr, 2012
#2271: Nov 10th 2015 at 5:11:22 PM

Here's another one for the Love Live Character trope:

Death Glare: In Episode 3 of Season 1, Umi gives this to Kotori after Kotori forgets her warning a couple of days earlier about making a below-the-knees dress for her or else Umi will not wear it for the upcoming performance.

edited 11th Nov '15 5:44:52 AM by andrew369

Arivne Since: Jan, 2001
#2272: Nov 11th 2015 at 4:38:32 AM

^^^

Plague Rat's Sewer Friend reflects any damage the environment would do to him to an infected heroes.

->would normally do to him to an infected hero.

^

"...after Kotori forget her warning on making a dress for her below her knees a couple of days ago."

->forgets her warning a couple of days earlier about making a below-the-knees dress for her.

andrew369 Since: Apr, 2012
rafi Since: Jun, 2014
#2274: Nov 15th 2015 at 11:09:20 AM

Ok, I have been suspended and would add this in ymmv section of To Love Ru.

  • Fanon Discontinuity: The first anime series is totally ignored by fans because is an Adaptation Distillation that has a completely different storyline than the manga. The "real" animated adaption start with Motto To Love-Ru.

The grammar is ok?.

edited 15th Nov '15 11:22:38 AM by rafi

Arivne Since: Jan, 2001
#2275: Nov 16th 2015 at 5:35:02 AM

^

"would add this in ymmv section of To Love Ru."

-> "would like to add this in the YMMV section of To Love Ru."

"...totally ignored by fans because is an..."

-> "because it is an..."

"The "real" animated adaption start with..."

-> "starts with..."

"The grammar is ok?."

-> "Is the grammar O.K.?"


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