TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Paper is an element?: Elemental Powers

Go To

Servbot Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#1: Oct 3rd 2010 at 5:02:50 AM

Just read the Elemental Powers description, and I noticed that someone added Paper as a Sub-Trope.

I'm pretty sure that Elements should only cover the forces of nature stuff, and in fact, the main description of the trope talks only about people with powers over natural stuff. As paper is man-made, and therefore, not an element in the way the trope talks about it, it probably shouldn't be included in the Sub-Trope list in the description.

Should we remove it from the main body (and all Paper examples in the Example list), or did I misinterpret and Paper is a valid Sub-Trope?

edited 3rd Oct '10 5:05:41 AM by Servbot

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#2: Oct 3rd 2010 at 8:19:24 AM

I'd say it fits since it's used the same way.

Fight smart, not fair.
DRCEQ Since: Oct, 2009
#3: Oct 3rd 2010 at 8:21:26 AM

When you think about it, isn't Paper just Wood under a different form?

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#4: Oct 3rd 2010 at 8:30:53 AM

Look at some of the other "elements" in that secondary list : sound, heart, ice, darkness, seasons. the moon. Paper fits in just fine.

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#5: Oct 3rd 2010 at 8:33:07 AM

Its is used in the same way, most refrences are to Onmyodo (which people still think it really works) or atleast the idea started from there.

Hell try watching Read Or Die some time smile

Naruto has exploding paper... stick it to a kunai and throw it for a grenade.

edited 3rd Oct '10 8:39:54 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Stranger goat milk? from Nowhere in particular Since: Nov, 2009
goat milk?
#6: Oct 3rd 2010 at 8:36:55 AM

Well, it's in the non-traditional category of "elements", and as pointed out, it could be considered an extension of wood, which is present in the chinese elemental powers. I'm not sure if that really works or not though, since that just justifies it as a derivative of wood or nature. By that logic, you could probably make an argument for roofer's nails as an element, by way of being a derivative of metal.

So I don't know. It seems to be the odd duck in the group, and I certainly wouldn't have added it, but I don't know that it's necessarily wrong.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#7: Oct 3rd 2010 at 8:43:10 AM

When paper gets used it's often with references to knowledge and creativity. I've never seen a show use roofing nails as an element, but I've seen at least ten different media that have used a variation of paper.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#8: Oct 3rd 2010 at 8:44:40 AM

The Naruto example of exploding paper is different, that's Exploding Runes (if we've got it) since it's Functional Magic.

Fight smart, not fair.
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#9: Oct 3rd 2010 at 8:55:23 AM

I don't think we do and reading that page it doesn't seem to fit under anything there.

Still it seems to fall under paper though since the rune is what makes the paper "magical". Paper tags like that are also used in Onmyodo for various things.

edited 3rd Oct '10 9:01:54 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#10: Oct 3rd 2010 at 9:03:17 AM

There really should he a trope for those paper tags. They do seem to show up in anime a lot. I don't know if the people using them would all count as Paper Masters, but it would certainly be a related trope. Maybe it's under a Japanese name? I'm not sure what to look for.

edited 3rd Oct '10 9:03:47 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#11: Oct 3rd 2010 at 9:06:27 AM

Well, if it's the magic tag thingies, I'd say that's different than Paper Master.

Fight smart, not fair.
Stranger goat milk? from Nowhere in particular Since: Nov, 2009
goat milk?
#12: Oct 3rd 2010 at 9:06:37 AM

I didn't mean anyone had used roofing nails as an element, it was just a hypothetical. There's no question of whether or not there's works where people have power over paper, I think the question is whether or not that qualfiies as an elemental power in its own right.

Considering some of the other, stranger ones present, like ice or poison, you could probably call it justified. It does seem like the oddest one to me, though.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#13: Oct 3rd 2010 at 9:10:32 AM

Honestly, I think there are a few commonly used ones missing from the list that are weirder. Flowers for one. The important bit is not are they weird or not, but are they used in the same nature as the rest and are the character types associated with them different enough from one of the other examples? I think in this case they character types that tend to use paper are far different than the ones that use the far more natural and less processed wood.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#14: Oct 3rd 2010 at 9:31:23 AM

Well Paper tags in Onmyodo are used for purification and exorcisms or used as wards sometimes with Onusa, the zigzag paper things you see people hanging in anime or carrying around (not if they are cleaning thats a Hataki which is comparable to a Feather Duster) most commonly at Shinto Shrines or with Mikos. Everything seen in anime extends from that.

I am not sure on the exact name of the tags though.

Here is kafuka from SZS overdoing it with tags and Onusa.

Enough for a YKTTW? (my last 2 YKTTWs failed pretty badly so thats why I am asking)

EDIT: its called Senjafuda [1] (literally means "thousand shrine tags")

edited 3rd Oct '10 12:09:50 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#15: Oct 3rd 2010 at 12:11:03 PM

Ok made the YKTTW [1]. feel free to help out this is only my 3rd YKTTW and the last 2 failed badly.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Servbot Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#16: Oct 3rd 2010 at 3:10:40 PM

There's no question of whether or not there's works where people have power over paper, I think the question is whether or not that qualfiies as an elemental power in its own right.

Yeah, this is what I mean. The other non-standard elements are part of nature, and have been used as either a type of elemental damage (Sound, Poison) or as being a fundamental part of that world's universe (Wood, Void, Metal).

From the media I've seen, Paper powers is just treated as a super power in general, and not as an elemental power or elemental type.

edited 3rd Oct '10 3:11:02 PM by Servbot

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#17: Oct 3rd 2010 at 4:51:04 PM

@Raso: No. Just stop. You're on the completely wrong track. While paper tags are a part of Omyodo, that's completely different from paper being used as an elemental attack. Completely, 100% different. This is not something that any reasonable person would even think of, you're just applying Square Peg Round Trope.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#19: Oct 3rd 2010 at 4:59:29 PM

We aren't saying that they're paper as an elemental attack. We just made a side comment that we couldn't find that trope. Ignore that point and move on. It's unrelated.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#20: Oct 3rd 2010 at 5:38:53 PM

Sorry, that was a bit of an overreaction, but we do have the Onmyodo already that lists paper tags as a feature of it.

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#21: Oct 3rd 2010 at 5:54:40 PM

Oh well ya should comment on the YKTTW. But really while for most the source may be from Omnyodo tags there are others like it, they are used by Taoist's as well and other fantasy animes which don't have the Shinto religion (Naruto) it is not exclusive.

edited 3rd Oct '10 5:59:17 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Twilightdusk Since: Jan, 2001
#22: Oct 3rd 2010 at 6:18:43 PM

the point being that "paper talismans" and "paper as an elemental force" are two entirely different things.

Yamikuronue So Yeah Since: Aug, 2009
#23: Oct 4th 2010 at 11:00:48 AM

Which is why "paper talismen" is going to YKTTW regardless of what we do with this. Separate issue.

BTW, I'm a chick.
arromdee Since: Jan, 2001
#24: Oct 4th 2010 at 11:36:10 AM

I've never heard of paper being used like an element, and Paper Master's examples are not examples of this. Just the fact that someone uses paper as a weapon doesn't make paper into an element, any more than swords are an element. Or insect swarms, to give another example of an unusual attack. Paper is not associated with other elements, doesn't fall under Elemental Rock–Paper–Scissors (despite the word 'paper' in that), and generally is not treated as a fundamental building block of the world. Wood is sometimes an element in this sense, but paper?

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#25: Oct 4th 2010 at 11:48:14 AM

I figured it had more to do with how the material is treated.

Fight smart, not fair.

Total posts: 49
Top