Honestly, my main problem with it is something that hasn't been complained about (recently in this thread at least): the Gratuitous Japanese, particularly in the opening chapters. Switching languages mid-dialogue does not good writing make.
edited 4th May '12 9:30:06 PM by gwonbush
The only thing you really should leave untranslated is names and incantations (only if the incantation is in a language other than the base language of the work). Names includes titles, technique names, and honorifics, as long as you use them properly. And many times, translating it would lose nothing (with the exception of honorifics, which add another layer of depth to character interactions.)
If it's set in a place where, in-story, the characters are using honorifics, then you might as well use the honorifics. They don't really translate at all, all of them, and the ones that do aren't precise equivalences. And if you feel the need to use names from outside of canon in an anime/manga fic, then you should use real Japanese names, at least, rather than Western ones or ones you've made up from a probably imperfect understanding of Japanese phonetics. There are perfectly good lists of such available online.
Shinigan (Naruto fanfic)Ah, yes, technique names. Yeah, if you absolutely must come up with names for them in Japanese, you should at least know Japanese, or run them by someone who does, lest you sound stupid. Which, of course, is a level of effort that very few people are willing or able to put into random fics.
Regarding honorifics, I'm going to disagree and leave it at that.
Shinigan (Naruto fanfic)![]()
Ah yes. Gratuitous Romaji for jutsu. That's definitely a sore spot for me. Kind of makes the effort you put into crafting jutsu names all the more better, though.
Are rank-based honorifics (i.e. Uzumaki-genin, Hatake-jonin) a lesser or greater sore spot for you?
edited 4th May '12 11:50:19 PM by Nitramy
Neither goony beard-men nor rainbow-haired she-twinks will stand in the way of my dreams!<Facepalm> Those aren't honorifics, and using them as such is basically butchering both languages.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - FighteerJapanese Honorifics play a very important part in Japanese social interactions (due to the much greater emphasis on politeness in Japanese culture than in the West), and several of them carry inherent naunces (some which change with context) that don't always have English equivalents. If there is a relatively accurate English equivalent, then I don't think there's a problem with translating it as such, but otherwise Japanese honorifics should not be ever dropped or swapped with English "counterparts".
edited 5th May '12 5:53:15 AM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.They don't have any meaning in English, and shouldn't be used in English. It's fine to keep them in when translating from Japanese for the accuracy, but in an English fic it's just as bad as sprinkling random Japanese words in the dialogue. In universe they use honorifics... because in universe they speak Japanese.
Yes, and in-universe the social dynamics are informed and implied by the extra information provided by the honorifics, and regardless of what language you're speaking this is useful information to have. Of course they don't have meaning in English, but neither does the word 'kunai', and I defy you to find a Naruto fic that doesn't use that.
Shinigan (Naruto fanfic)Show, Don't Tell. Using honorifics to tell people of social dynamics rather than showing it in the interaction itself is just plain terrible form.
And that absolutely can't be compared to kunai, which is the name of the tool.
It's a Japanese word. Doesn't that mean it's awful by definition?
And using the honorifics is showing, because they're what you'd see (well, hear) if you were actually standing by and watching the scene. The point of Show, Don't Tell is to keep people from plain stating facts that are not visible ('he was angry', for instance) and instead describe their visible consequences (as in describe his facial expression, fists clenching, et cetera). Honorifics definitely count as visible consequences.
Shinigan (Naruto fanfic)Somewhere in Japan, other two fans must be having an equally pointless debate on if using Mister and Miss in their American comics based fanfics counts as Gratuitous English or not.
edited 5th May '12 7:56:59 PM by NapoleonDeCheese
The dialog includes the honorifics. In universe, the characters are using them, and a hypothetical observer would see them and derive information about social relations from which ones are used. Therefore, it's not a Show, Don't Tell problem. Show, Don't Tell is explicitly when the narrator states facts which aren't immediately visible or available to their nominal perspective. Using honorifics is a perfectly valid way of conveying social relationships, because they are visible.
Shinigan (Naruto fanfic)True enough. I'm not bothered by Gratuitous Japanese myself, but I understand that some people are, and it's true that the fic includes rather a lot of it.
Shinigan (Naruto fanfic)I generally dislike the use of Gratuitous Japanese because the writers very rarely actually know Japanese and so they just take a random Japanese word and use it to replace a vaguely equivalent English word in every situation. Awesome lines like "Sasuke, you're such a temee" are the result. The end result is that the dialog and/or the narrator come across as if they were using otaku-speak and I find that very jarring.
I feel basically the same way about honorifics. For one, they frequently Did Not Do The Research about what honorific character X uses for character Y, so whatever subtleties were in the original have now been replaced with varying degrees of wrongness. Second, because the writers generally don't know Japanese, they aren't able to make use of honorifics with any subtlety or skill. However, they are often tempted to try to use the honorifics in some way — like having a character change honorifics to show changes in their relationship but the results usually range from clumsy to wrong.
edited 6th May '12 10:33:04 AM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

It really is. Team8 is the result of S'Tarkan thinking he could do better, and look how badly that turned out.
In all seriousness, the criticism is valid and people should be allowed to have their own opinion and criticize it without being chased out of the thread.
And just because someone criticizes the flaw of the series doesn't mean they hate it or even dislike it.
edited 4th May '12 8:39:43 PM by Saiga