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alethiophile Shadowed Philosopher from Ëa Since: Nov, 2009
Shadowed Philosopher
#226: Jul 25th 2013 at 2:28:53 PM

And claiming that people who display noxious behaviors aren't 'real' feminists, regardless of what they believe or identify as, is textbook no-true-Scotsman. Feminists can be annoying asses just as much as other people can.

Shinigan (Naruto fanfic)
ScorpioRat from Houston, Texas Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
#227: Jul 25th 2013 at 2:33:15 PM

I think the term Kay's looking for is an ideal feminist, which Kurenai certainly is not.

@Hiashi: God I hate Hiashi bashing. It's like everyone forgets the flashback after Neji loses to Naruto and all his developement with Hinata afterwards.

kay4today Princess Ymir's knightess from Austria Since: Jan, 2011
Princess Ymir's knightess
#228: Jul 25th 2013 at 2:37:02 PM

[up][up] I think we're talking past each other. People can be real feminists while being annoying jerks, but when they're annoying/obnoxious about their feminism then they fail at being true feminists. Because feminism isn't about doing things like threatening people with knives because they read (gasp) porn.

Just like I consider atheists who aggressively try to rub their atheism under everyone's noses and PETA fanatics who advocate for burning people who wear fur as failures of the faction they err... choose to represent. (atheists and vegetarians/vegans)

edited 25th Jul '13 2:37:43 PM by kay4today

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#229: Jul 25th 2013 at 2:59:39 PM

[up][up]

Well "supposedly" the Nail has something to do with that... because it's not like the Hyuga clan are just a convenient way to turn Hinata into the perfect companion for Naruto and all of his angst. I'm sure Hiashi had a tragic experience that turned him into such a cold bastard.

There is a review for Chapter 20 that made me think of something kind of funny. When Kurenai gets head-shotted by Itachi, isn't she wearing her forehead protector, the metal plate on her head that's supposed to stop or at least negate such attacks? Itachi has a damn good throwing arm. That, or the kunai really skewered her, which isn't as funny...

This story is so old, if anybody posting here doesn't know about that death I'd be surprised.

edited 25th Jul '13 3:06:08 PM by FOFD

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#230: Jul 25th 2013 at 3:06:07 PM

I think we're talking past each other. People can be real feminists while being annoying jerks, but when they're annoying/obnoxious about their feminism then they fail at being true feminists. Because feminism isn't about doing things like threatening people with knives because they read (gasp) porn.
That's your opinion. Other self-proclaimed "real feminists" who do not belong in the "annoying/obnoxious about their feminism" might dispute that your take on what a "real feminist" is about still misses the point. And there might be other feminist who would make rather sensible arguments that porn that involves utterly sexist premises is unacceptably degrading and thus their active hostility towards that kind of porn is, at least from their POV, quite justified (and, in my honest opinion, hard to disagree with on principle).

Bottom line: When a "real X" concept is the product of human thinking, it's practically always subjective and, some way or the other, will be ultimately proven to flawed to some degree.

edited 25th Jul '13 3:12:58 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#231: Jul 25th 2013 at 3:40:50 PM

Oboy, we are falling into the 'my opinion'/'your opinion' thing again, aren't we?

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#232: Jul 25th 2013 at 3:44:08 PM

I don't get why Orochimaru losing an arm is even a problem. Didn't he like get torn in half at one point during Part II?

He's the poster boy for regeneration in this series. Sarutobi had to rip the soul out of Orochimaru's arms, but Haku froze one of the arms and this somehow caused significant damage? Alright, my medical knowledge is extremely limited, but if they could amputate and stabilize a 60-70 year old man, a 40-50 year old regenerator should have no problem.

kay4today Princess Ymir's knightess from Austria Since: Jan, 2011
Princess Ymir's knightess
#233: Jul 25th 2013 at 3:44:23 PM

[up][up][up] Some "opinions" are more right than others and should be seen as such. Some people also have the "opinion" that there's nothing wrong with things like rape and murder as well, but those people are rightly seen as wrong by not-sickos. And nuts. Kind of like the radical straw feminists get ridiculed by the actual feminists who don't have the maturity of a screeching baby.

As for the other things you say in your post, not sure whether you talk to anyone here or are just kind of babbling to yourself, so... yeah.

edited 25th Jul '13 3:47:53 PM by kay4today

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#234: Jul 25th 2013 at 3:52:02 PM

My point is that you're acting like your interpretation of what "real feminism" is about is absolutely correct and precise. In my opinion, simpy being "not obnoxious about your feminism" (which is what you look like you're saying to me) cannot be all there is to "real/true feminism"; it's insultingly and short-sightedly oversimplifying.

And the less said about whether Kurenai is objectively obnoxious about her feminism, the better. That way inevitably leads to Flame War.

edited 25th Jul '13 3:54:04 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
kay4today Princess Ymir's knightess from Austria Since: Jan, 2011
Princess Ymir's knightess
#235: Jul 25th 2013 at 3:53:39 PM

I still have that offer regarding reading comprehension classes, just throwing that out there.

[up] She is in my opinion, which is pretty much objective. waiitongue

edited 25th Jul '13 3:54:14 PM by kay4today

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#236: Jul 25th 2013 at 3:56:34 PM

Your attempt at humor is not appreciated, nor do I find it funny. I find it in ill taste, to be brutally honest.

I still have that offer regarding reading comprehension classes, just throwing that out there.
You might want to point out (and convince me) where in this debate did I fail at "reading comprehension" first. We're both humans, our opinions are inherently just as flawed as each other (notwithstanding any other factors, like cultural and lifetime upbringing, that may increase or decrease said flawedness to some degree).

edited 25th Jul '13 3:59:17 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Salfishfin Since: Jan, 2001
#237: Jul 25th 2013 at 3:58:21 PM

It's not gem the obnoxious part that's the problem. She has a legitimate problem with how pornography portrays women. The problem is that she’s criticizing other women (Sakura and Ino) for the way they act, as though feminism isn't about women being able to make such choices in the first place. Basically, you can’t say your a feminist while you criticize the choices other women make (note, this is different from criticizing ideologies other women have– there are a lot of things forced into women's heads by the patriarchal society).

kay4today Princess Ymir's knightess from Austria Since: Jan, 2011
Princess Ymir's knightess
#238: Jul 25th 2013 at 3:59:09 PM

[up][up] oh noes

[up] Don't forget the part where she threatens people over reading porn, which is really mature and stuff.

edited 25th Jul '13 3:59:47 PM by kay4today

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#239: Jul 25th 2013 at 4:00:51 PM

Ninja'd.

[up][up] Now that is an interesting look at it. Care to elaborate and perhaps refresh our minds of stuff that we may have forgotten/glossed over?

edited 25th Jul '13 4:01:10 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#240: Jul 25th 2013 at 4:05:34 PM

She is a hypocrite and a poor excuse of a feminist. It's insulting to actual feminists, because real feminists don't act like whiny children.

Is she? I never really thought about feminism aspect. Then again, I read this fic, what, five years ago; I wasn't even really aware of what feminism was back then.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Salfishfin Since: Jan, 2001
#241: Jul 25th 2013 at 4:09:16 PM

Not sure how sarcastic you're being.

Anyway, like I said, I have no problem with the fact that she has a problem with porn. Of course, there's a bit of the Tone Argument there– yes, it is wrong for her to threaten people, but the point she makes about how pornography treats female characters is still valid.

Yeah, yeah nobody said her points weren't valid, yada yada yada…

kay4today Princess Ymir's knightess from Austria Since: Jan, 2011
Princess Ymir's knightess
#242: Jul 25th 2013 at 4:19:57 PM

@Roy

There's also all the random bashing over the place; it's subdued compared to other bashfics but it's still there. Oh, and and all the random japanese is annoying.

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#243: Jul 25th 2013 at 4:22:09 PM

Yeah, I did find some of the bashings cringeworthy.

And oh God, yes, the random wapanese. Urgh.

edited 25th Jul '13 4:22:56 PM by dRoy

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
ScorpioRat from Houston, Texas Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
#244: Jul 25th 2013 at 4:23:00 PM

Oh, and negative five points for Team 8 for making Hinata Naruto's damsel. Way to completely miss the entire reason Naru/Hina exists as a pairing. [lol]

[down]Yeah, I can deal with some honorifics here and there, but I can do without random words being thrown into normal speech. It's like they're trying to do Spanglish with Japanese.

edited 25th Jul '13 4:26:46 PM by ScorpioRat

kay4today Princess Ymir's knightess from Austria Since: Jan, 2011
Princess Ymir's knightess
#245: Jul 25th 2013 at 4:24:38 PM

[up][up] "Nani?!"

"Yamete!"

"Otou-san!"

edited 25th Jul '13 4:24:53 PM by kay4today

Salfishfin Since: Jan, 2001
#246: Jul 25th 2013 at 4:27:48 PM

[up][up]Way to miss Hinata training hard and becoming a stronger character than she was in canon.

edited 25th Jul '13 4:28:31 PM by Salfishfin

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#247: Jul 25th 2013 at 4:29:49 PM

There's also all the random bashing over the place; it's subdued compared to other bashfics but it's still there. Oh, and and all the random japanese is annoying.
And oh God, yes, the random wapanese. Urgh.
Well, that's a very respectable and understandable complaint that I can't hold against anyone (even though I didn't find the usage of Japanese in the fic that annoying). I, for one, didn't like it when Commie Subs threw tons of Gratuitous German into Girls und Panzer like no tommorrow, replacing perfectly appropiate English translations in places where it wouldn't even make sense for non-German influenced Japanese girls that were just started practicing Tankery to use (assuming that the sport is actually somewhat influenced in terminology by German tank "culture", as implied by the show's German grammar-based 2-thirds-German title and the non-isolated use of "Panzer vor!"). And that's just from watching brief clips rather than entire episodes.

edited 25th Jul '13 4:31:19 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
ScorpioRat from Houston, Texas Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
#248: Jul 25th 2013 at 4:30:42 PM

[up][up]I haven't read Team 8 in a few years, but I still faintly remember some Hiashi abuses Hinata so Naruto can emotionally heal her stuff. Unless I'm just wrong. Anyone willing to dig through Team 8 to see if I'm mixing this up with another fanfic?

edited 25th Jul '13 4:31:13 PM by ScorpioRat

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#249: Jul 25th 2013 at 4:32:31 PM

@kay - Glurgh, don't remind me.

I think I heard someone say that if you hearing a lot of "Yamete!", it means that you are watching a Japanese porn.

(I don't know how he arrived to that conclusion and frankly, I don't want to)

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
kay4today Princess Ymir's knightess from Austria Since: Jan, 2011
Princess Ymir's knightess
#250: Jul 25th 2013 at 4:36:26 PM

@Scorpio

I wouldn't call that sexist or something as much as just typical Nardo fanfiction.

If I got a penny for every fic where Sakura saves Sasuke from his DARKNESS and LONELINESS I'd buy myself a mansion.


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