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TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#201: May 25th 2011 at 8:58:06 PM

220 damage coupled with that penetration Yeah your going to feel that.

Who watches the watchmen?
Tyyrlym Jerk from Normandy SR-2 Since: Mar, 2011
Jerk
#202: May 26th 2011 at 6:12:23 AM

So your saying the Leopard plays exactly like my PZ III then. My gun can't mar the bigger tanks, I am only good for scouting or harassing, and if I get into a lower tier battle I am monster.
Very similar, but smaller, faster, and with better armor. The only thing about the Leopard though is that armor is heavy so you don't acclerate that well. So don't stop moving once you get going, keep that momentum up.

avatar: Tuefel Hunden IV Chosen Man pagad: Was it damaged or not? Also Pz III or Pz III Aufs A One has tinfoil for armor.
No, that's about right. The 105mm with HE ammo is a beast. It'll one shot or close to it just about any tank up to tier 3 and can one shot some tier 4 tanks with a lucky hit. It will consistantly do a good bit of damage right up to about tier 8 and can track anybody. It's probably the Hetzer's one saving grace is that it can mount that gun and still have a chance of winding up in games where 90% of the people in it have to fear that thing might kill them in one shot.

On tanks and weak spots you have found...
That all sounds about right. Most tanks are pretty iffy to shoot at if all you can see is the front of the body and turret. Unless your gun has gonzo penetration odds are low you'll really do a lot to them. Sides are the best, especially against tanks with small road wheels that leave a lot of the lower hull exposed. Those with bigger roadwheels are less vulnerable to penetrating damage but are more likely to be tracked.

The lower glacis is actually a week point in a lot of tanks, especially if they are cresting a hill in front of you. It's usually well sloped and deflects most shots into the ground but if you can make it stick you'll often get penetration with guns you never thought would damage a tank frontally.

Turret sides are usually iffy but if you do aim for the turret either aim right below the hatches to try for crew damage or aim at the rear of the turret as some tanks carry ammo back there and a penetrating hit there can either do ammo rack damage or get an ammo rack explosion that's an insta-kill.

"Tyyr's a necessary evil. " Spirit
pagad Sneering Imperialist from perfidious Albion Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Sneering Imperialist
#203: May 26th 2011 at 6:46:56 AM

Ahahaha just had the weirdest encounter.

Was having a good game in my Hetzer and had racked up 4 kills on Malinovka. Last remaining enemy tank is an IS - which proceeds to charge blindly at me, cannon levelled. Either he had a destroyed cannon or was just being an idiot, but for whatever reason he just charged straight at me. Maybe he was trying to destroy me by ramming. I sink three HE shots into his frontal armour (aiming for the driver's slot) before he rams me. He fails to destroy me and instead tracks himself as I back away frantically and put one final shot into him from point-blank range. He fires his cannon and misses, hitting the ground in front of him, before a friendly T29 finally finishes him off from 10%.

The little Hetzer that could. smile

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#204: May 26th 2011 at 12:29:09 PM

pagad: Lol.

Yeah the hetzer definetly needs those better engines.

Who watches the watchmen?
pagad Sneering Imperialist from perfidious Albion Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Sneering Imperialist
#205: May 26th 2011 at 4:21:15 PM

If it had better acceleration and manoeuvrability, it'd actually be a great little tank destroyer and wouldn't have the awful reputation that it's saddled with at the moment. I'm really enjoying playing it, which was unexpected - during the beta, Hetzers seemed easy cannon fodder no matter what tank I was in.

Still, I'm eager to move up to the Stu G.

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#206: May 26th 2011 at 4:45:32 PM

Well until I got the third engine in I was slower then dirt and fight was over by the time I got there. I am picking up the next suspension so I can add in the final engine then get the better guns. The stock gun doesn't really cut it for most of the battles I find myself in. I am frequently harassing heavy tanks with little to no effect. The gun is very accurate but that doesn't matter much when you can't even punch through the armor.

My play style compared to my Marder II is definitely different in the Hetzer. The marder II is noticeably more quick and agile at the cost of open top and less armor. Also the guns firing arc is more limited on the hetzer but I am slowly getting over that annoying fact. The hetzer is definetly better in the urban areas or more crowded maps where you can expect to take a few hits. I am toying with being a mid map camper with the Hetzer and switching the camo net from my marder to my Hetzer.

edited 26th May '11 4:46:19 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
pagad Sneering Imperialist from perfidious Albion Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Sneering Imperialist
#207: May 26th 2011 at 5:10:17 PM

Once you get the 105mm for the Hetzer, everything changes. Suddenly you're one-shotting every tier 4 and under, and doing serious damage to everything above that. Just make sure that ALL your shells are High Explosive. I also took the liberty of upgrading my gunner to full 100% experience to minimise the hit in accuracy.

I still haven't got the top engine, though. Considering upgrading my radio just so I can rely on my teammates' LOS for spotting purposes. The problem with that is that the Hetzer's upgraded radios aren't compatible with other German tanks, unlike most German radios.

edited 26th May '11 5:13:13 PM by pagad

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#208: May 26th 2011 at 5:44:22 PM

I noticed that. Was not a happy camper about it either. really all HE? Even against a heavy? I could see some of the Tier IV's going up gloriously. I know most arty and a fair chunk of the TD line are vulnerable to HE rounds. But shooting at a KV, T1, or a Tiger or better with HE doesn't strike me as a good idea. Not even rack a few AP for the hard cases?

I need that better suspension it will help with speedy tank rotation and allow the heavier stuff.

If you get the better engine let me know how that works out for you.

I will have to go the long road for my gunner until I can get him up to 75% same for my loader. My PZ III crew has 76 and 77 gunner loader. I was finding the low speeds and low targeting cumbersome in the mid tier battles. My marder II crew is all 80%+ now. I regularly rack up 3-5 kills per match. In the matches where I don't I seriously damage or mangle a variety of tanks. I am finding my marder II increasingly used to snipe arty and other TD's with HE.

edited 26th May '11 5:48:35 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
Barcode711 Clutch pedal = sidestep from Uddiyana Since: Apr, 2009
Clutch pedal = sidestep
#209: May 26th 2011 at 7:43:10 PM

Hated the KV until I realized that the Tier 7 gun you can unlock (which I acknowledged to be a great gun, but I didn't want to tech to since it cost half the experience of simply getting the next KV) can be mounted on the next tier tank. Now I just hate myself for buying two equally horrible engines when I should have been saving experience for the turret/gun. I'm gonna research those, then switch back to grinding for the next tank.

Now I'm still stuck with a penetrationless Tier 5 cannon in games where I frequently must fight Tier 7 heavies.

edited 26th May '11 7:44:28 PM by Barcode711

Worshipper of Ahura Mazda, as proclaimed by Zoroadster http://twitter.com/bpglobalpr
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#210: May 26th 2011 at 8:22:11 PM

Those Tier 7's are what I hate fighting. If I am lucky I piss them off. I saw my first tighter in my Pz III. Even poked the tiger a bit with my 50mm pop gun.

I see a lot of KV's and American Heavies.

edited 26th May '11 8:22:40 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
pagad Sneering Imperialist from perfidious Albion Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Sneering Imperialist
#211: May 26th 2011 at 10:31:01 PM

I noticed that. Was not a happy camper about it either. really all HE? Even against a heavy? I could see some of the Tier IV's going up gloriously. I know most arty and a fair chunk of the TD line are vulnerable to HE rounds. But shooting at a KV, T1, or a Tiger or better with HE doesn't strike me as a good idea. Not even rack a few AP for the hard cases?

The armour penetration of the gun isn't good enough to warrant using AP shells, simple as that really. Whereas with HE I was taking 20%+ off an IS by shooting its frontal armour with HE shells. In both cases the penetration is meh, but in the case of high explosive shells the damage is lolwtf.

KV drivers equipped with 152mm trollcannons do the same thing, only the damage there is so truly huge you can take 60% off an IS-3 with your gunner claiming "we didn't penetrate their armour".

edited 26th May '11 10:35:10 PM by pagad

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#212: May 26th 2011 at 10:56:57 PM

Troll Cannon. Lol I like that description.

I am still working on getting in my first Russian medium. Almost ready.

So you derp them with HE. Sounds like what I should do with the 75mm Short Barrel on the PZ III. Doesn't the Ap round improve penetration though?

Just did a quick experiment with my Marder II. with the 7.6cm gun all HE. Holy shit it out performed AP at range and close quarters. Also earned the defender medal.

I wish I earned it on my Hetzer Instead though. Massive experience bump

edited 26th May '11 11:43:49 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
Tyyrlym Jerk from Normandy SR-2 Since: Mar, 2011
Jerk
#213: May 27th 2011 at 7:07:52 AM

You go with HE on the 105mm because it's a low velocity gun. AP shells rely on velocity for their penetration and without it they just don't penetrate. The 105mm HE round does a lot of damage even if it doesn't penetrate just because of how much explosive there is in it. There is no reason to carry any AP rounds in the tanks with the stubby 105mm for direct fire.

On the Pz III it's a toss up, while the Pen on the 75mm isn't bad it's not all that spectacular. You're usually better off with HE against bigger tanks and against smaller ones most of the time. The only one I might take AP for is fellow tier 4 tanks and some tier 3 ones but its so situational that I rack 90%+ HE and a handful of AP that I rarely use. In general for that tank I take the long 50mm and forget about it. The Pz III really sits at an ugly place, Tier 4 is the first open season Tier and you've really got nothing with which to reliably damage the larger tier tanks you're going to run into a lot.

"Tyyr's a necessary evil. " Spirit
pagad Sneering Imperialist from perfidious Albion Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Sneering Imperialist
#214: May 27th 2011 at 9:03:22 AM

The Pz III has a couple of advantages, though. It's well armoured for its tier and very fast. My M5 Stuart in the same tier is a piece of shit that explodes if someone coughs at it.

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.
Tyyrlym Jerk from Normandy SR-2 Since: Mar, 2011
Jerk
#215: May 27th 2011 at 9:19:46 AM

True, but if I want to turbo scout I'll grab a leopard. If you're in a Pz III you're heading up the tree for combat tanks.

"Tyyr's a necessary evil. " Spirit
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#216: May 27th 2011 at 12:19:14 PM

Very True. Pz III is fast and decently armored but it has a pop-gun for fire power. My HE scheme on my Marder II is fucking up tanks. All HE on the Hetzer stock gun is proving to be a good idea as well.

On tanks that I bounce AP I am doing damage. 11% Per hit on a M3 Lee with the short barreled 75mm. My Pz III is doing real harm now.

Had an excellent flanking charge today. A band of light tanks consisting of 2 Pz III A's, 2 Leopards, a Russian A-20 I think? A T-46, and Myself flanked on one of the new open field maps to the side smashed the one enemy medium tank along the way there, then proceeded to wreck up the enemy, artillery, td's and mediums that came to the rescue. That was freaking awesome. We got trashed up and only three of us lived but we capped. With the number of lights, mediums and TD's they should have shredded us. 75mm HE works very well on Marder II's even decently against a hetzer.

Over Half way to the 10.5 cm fuck you gun on the hetzer.

Between the cash from my Marder II earning my now rapidly building medals collection and my greater successes in my Hetzer, I easily afforded crew training to 75% for gunner and loader on the Hetzer. I might save up enough to upgrade the rest of the crew. I should save enough for a second camo net that I can pass along post hetzer to the Stug.

They killed the tracers because they think it is a cheat. Well if they would have turned off/down that crappy smoke particle shit that taxes even decent systems we all could see our shots.

Got the 105mm Not a open field gun.

edited 28th May '11 3:54:19 AM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
pagad Sneering Imperialist from perfidious Albion Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Sneering Imperialist
#217: May 28th 2011 at 7:42:31 AM

Sold my M5 Stuart because it really was a piece of shit. Instead I bought a tier two M2, which I've had great experiences with in the past, and true to form it tears through other tier 2s like a knife through butter. Much better for grinding experience for the M7.

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#218: May 28th 2011 at 12:29:21 PM

Soon no more Pz III i fucking hate that thing. Occasionally I get into a low tier battle and wreck the poor bastards but most of the time I am cannon fodder.

Who watches the watchmen?
pagad Sneering Imperialist from perfidious Albion Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Sneering Imperialist
#219: May 29th 2011 at 5:41:07 AM

The Panzer IV is an interesting one, you can either use it as a pretty fast and manoeuvrable medium tank with a decent punch or a cumbersome sniper with the Schmallturm + L/70 75mm gun. Either way, something of a step up from the III.

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#220: May 29th 2011 at 8:55:35 AM

Holy shit that tip about both camouflage netting and HE rounds is still doing wonders. My marder II just racked up a 6 kill run in one game earning me my second Top Gun Medal. Anything short of a higher tier medium or a heavy I just chew up with that thing.

My Marder II has become a terror on the field. All the crew are all around 86-87% in experience. With my crew rapidly approaching that magical 90% mark. The load speed and targeting have improved noticeably. I am usually reloaded before I am re-targeted. Only thing better would improved site range preferably the removable one so I can shift it between my Marder II and my Hetzer freely.

I believe I shall have the same effect with my Hetzer until I can buy the Stug. I am rapidly hitting the point where I am more long on cash then on XP. That Tier V vehicle sets are where it really does start to slow down.

I bagged a Tiger in my Het. :3 HE in the tread wells plus heavies distracting him. He was really surprised when I hit his treadwell with that HE shot though. That took off a surprising chunk of his health. I thought was toast when he pointed his gun at me though. Thankfully I reloaded before he did because he had fired just after I hit him.

That 105mm HE definitely surprises folks. LT's get blasted in one hit except Leopards. Quite a few mediums die if I hit them in the side or back. Only higher tier ones can take the damage. :D

The 105 is not as inaccurate as I first thought it was. I am getting similar hit ratios at distances I fire at with my 7.6cm on the Marder II but only with more punch. I have also switched to using mostly HE shots in my Pz III I actually damage tanks I bounce AP off of.

That bump in crew ability with training purchase is really worth it.

So what do you guys think about the American tank lines? I have considered picking up a tank line heading for American Heavies.

I may try for the artillery line again but I think I will go back to my Russian line as I thoroughly enjoyed them in beta.

edited 29th May '11 8:14:38 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
pagad Sneering Imperialist from perfidious Albion Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Sneering Imperialist
#221: May 30th 2011 at 5:52:09 PM

Well, just sold my Hetzer. Farewell, little TD. We had some good times together, but when it comes right down to it, you did kind of suck.

Hello, brand new Stu G III! Looking forward to taking it for a spin tomorrow.

edited 30th May '11 5:52:53 PM by pagad

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.
Pyroninja42 Forum Villain from the War Room Since: Jan, 2011
Forum Villain
#222: May 30th 2011 at 7:19:41 PM

Stu GIII + Laser Cannon = Tier V God.

Enough said.

"Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person that doesn't get it."
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#223: May 31st 2011 at 1:28:53 AM

Which one is the "laser" cannon? In one match 3 td'sholding an active corner against a heavy tank push. Two hets and a stug. All of us with 105's :3

Yeah that heavy backed off really quickly after the first salvo.

edited 31st May '11 1:36:03 AM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
Pyroninja42 Forum Villain from the War Room Since: Jan, 2011
Forum Villain
#224: May 31st 2011 at 6:27:40 AM

T He laser cannon is the Stug gun with the .3 accuracy.

"Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person that doesn't get it."
Tyyrlym Jerk from Normandy SR-2 Since: Mar, 2011
Jerk
#225: May 31st 2011 at 6:43:35 AM

The Stu G with the 75mm/L70 cannon. It's the one with the really long barrel. It's a monster. The gun is very accurate. If you can see it you can hit it and most of the time decide where you want to hit it. Give the Stu G a shell rammer as well as a 100% crew and ventilation (which thanks to the commander bonus means your loader will have an effective rating of 115%) And it's a machine gun as well as a sniper rifle. I ended plenty of rushes in Beta just by parking my Stu G in a bush and using that ridiuclous rate of fire and accuracy to just pop lights and mediums one right after another. A Stu G in lower tier games with that gun is flat out broken.

As with all TD's you need to get a camo net for it so you're almost impossible to spot and when you get your crew to 100% train them in camo as well.

The Stu G with the L70 is probably the most fun I've ever had in this game. I do wish you could chose which gun you use before a battle though. Places like Ensk and Himmelsdorf would be perfect to have the 10.5cm on but if you've got that and wind up on Malinovka... ugh.

"Tyyr's a necessary evil. " Spirit

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