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LilyLopunny Cleanup specialist from middle of nowhere Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Sharing a spaghetti noodle
Cleanup specialist
#21726: Dec 24th 2021 at 11:12:37 AM

Yeah. That Infernape episode was pretty boring for what it promised.

I kinda think an episode or two (or a few...) just focused on Ash's Pokemon at the lab would be nice. Infernape and Charizard being rivals/sparring partners seems perfect for an episode, with them ultimately bonding over their similar backstories, but they only briefly hinted at it in what we got. Or give us the wacky misadventures of Totodile and Corphish, since they've apparently become Those Two Guys.

Edited by LilyLopunny on Dec 24th 2021 at 11:13:40 AM

"Be the change you want to see in the world." My bf and I being the change: www.twitch.tv/lilyandfloatzel https://discord.gg/z7PmdTksVj
precita Since: Jan, 2014
#21727: Dec 24th 2021 at 11:17:01 AM

I assume if we see Ash use any old Pokemon it won't be till the tail-end of this series anyway like most past series. But at least the writers are reminding us of them, I do think Infernape will be in the Cynthia battle given how much they keep reminding us of it.

pikafan Dragon Of The Month: Apollyon Monkart (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Dragon Of The Month: Apollyon Monkart
#21728: Dec 24th 2021 at 11:28:13 AM

Why not Primeape or Larvitar?

I would love to see Larvitar return, as a fully evolved Tyranitar.

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#21729: Dec 24th 2021 at 11:29:50 AM

The title for Cassidy and Butch's reappearance ("Farewell! The Wandering Rocket Gang!") makes it sound like this'll be their swan song. (Maybe THEY got fired while Jessie and James are living it up in the boss's good books?)

Edited by lalalei2001 on Dec 24th 2021 at 2:31:20 PM

The Protomen enhanced my life.
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#21730: Dec 24th 2021 at 11:31:03 AM

That’s nice. Giving closure to them instead of leaving them forgotten.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#21731: Dec 24th 2021 at 11:34:26 AM

Also is that Meowzie next to Butch's giant head?

The Protomen enhanced my life.
precita Since: Jan, 2014
#21732: Dec 24th 2021 at 11:43:08 AM

Also it seems like Erika the Kanto Gym leader might be appearing. The scene with Leafeon has a character in a kimono that's the same as Erika's outfit. People compared it to Erika's designs in other media and it's the same.

I wonder if Erika will remember Ash's attemps to get into her gym as Ashley.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#21733: Dec 24th 2021 at 3:42:01 PM

And Marnie is making her debut.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#21734: Dec 24th 2021 at 5:41:00 PM

A lot of forums are speculating Ash's journey might be wrapping up... is there any behind-the-scenes reason or is this the same speculation we get every year?

The Protomen enhanced my life.
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#21735: Dec 24th 2021 at 5:50:36 PM

It’s because we have a character who has a lot of relevance in Gou as one of the main leads.

I doubt Ash is going anywhere.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#21736: Dec 24th 2021 at 6:55:53 PM

[up][up]Probably what we get every year since the end of D&P, though Ash moving so quickly towards the master class has a lot of people buzzing. As I mentioned a couple of weeks back, becoming the world battling champion is probably the closest Ash can get to his original, nebulous goal; and with the rate of his advancement, that could conceivably happen by the end of Journeys. If Ash was ever to be retired as the viewpoint character, that would be the time.

Edited by ViperMagnum357 on Dec 24th 2021 at 9:56:10 AM

precita Since: Jan, 2014
#21737: Dec 24th 2021 at 7:19:36 PM

Admittedly the stakes are higher this time because he will be battling champions at the end of the saga. It's not just the usual go around of Gym leaders and losing at a league. The anime is going to be almost 25 years old in another 2 years, it's pretty obvious the writers are taking more risks now than sticking with the usual formula.

I think even as early as when DP ended in 2010, even back then (which is now oddly 11 years ago), it felt like the writers were aware Ash's story was running its course. They wouldn't have tried to do an almost semi-reboot with BW if not. And since then the anime changed again every series.

clemont107 Taunie from Lumiose City, Kalos (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Taunie
#21738: Dec 24th 2021 at 8:25:26 PM

I don't really see Ash being Put on a Bus even if he stops being the main character, as maybe The Hero role would be given to someone else like Goh, while Ash remains a supporting character and a Mentor Archetype. Ash has been an integral part of the anime, and removing him would remove a core part of what made the anime great, especially in recent years. Though I could see Ash aging 3-5 years after being 10 for over 20 years IRL.

As for Marnie debuting, they better not screw her entrance by giving her Adaptational Jerkass like they did with Skyla and Erika. (Seriously, what is it with the anime turning canonically Nice Girls into Jerkasses and vice-versa? Looking at you, Claire and Lusamine.) She should also not just appear in two episodes and then disappear from the series altogether, as it would make her underused similarly to her appearance in the Sword and Shield games.

Edited by clemont107 on Dec 24th 2021 at 11:33:43 AM

"Great, now this gal named Dawn is stalking me and complaining about no Sinnoh Megas! It's getting on my nerves!" - Taunie
Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#21739: Dec 24th 2021 at 8:36:27 PM

I wouldn't say he'll retire... but he's certainly in a position like Goku where his character arc is pretty much complete and thus you can have him in a supporting role while someone like Goh would pretty much all the spotlight. That's why I don't see it as a big loss for Ash to have less screentime focus than Goh.

ElSquibbonator Since: Oct, 2014
#21740: Dec 24th 2021 at 9:30:47 PM

Regarding Biff and Cassidy, I have a sneaking suspicion the "farewell" in the title refers to them, not to Jessie, James, and Meowth.

Seeing as they aren't in their Team Rocket uniforms in any of the preview images, I'm inclined to think that they're no longer Team Rocket members. It would certainly explain why the anime writers have been leaning more and more on the Matori Matrix lately whenever they want to give Jessie, James, and Meowth foils within Team Rocket, instead of using Butcher and Cassidy. For example, "A Little Rocket R & R" could easily have been a Bill and Cassidy episode, but instead it had the Matori Matrix as the villains.

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this. I really liked the dynamic Jessie and Cassidy seemed to have early on, and having Bitch and Cassidy leave Team Rocket would kind of spoil that. I'm also not really sold on the idea of them having Meowzie, or even having a Meowth in general. They were introduced basically as the "anti-TRio", with Raticate as their signature Pokémon in place of Meowth, right down to having it say its name in their motto. If nothing else, Raticate should still be in this episode.

There's also the matter that, at least in their earlier appearances, Botch and Cassidy were consistently portrayed as more competent that the TRio, and came up with more evil schemes— the fake breeding center, enslaving an entire island with a Drowzee, capturing a baby Lugia. I'm not against the idea of having villains reform, but the TRio always struck me as more inherently redeemable than Buffy and Cassidy.

Point being, I'm glad to see them bringing back these old characters, but I'm not sold on what they seem to be doing with them.

Edited by ElSquibbonator on Dec 24th 2021 at 12:31:21 PM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#21741: Dec 25th 2021 at 12:07:09 AM

[up][up] You say that, but the focus on Goh has been one of the more contentious parts of this season.

For my part, I think it's good they're experimenting even if the result is a mixed bag.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Dec 25th 2021 at 3:07:25 PM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#21742: Dec 25th 2021 at 12:16:20 AM

[up][up] Correction. They were originally competent but against the likes of Ash, that doesn't mean much. Think of all the times where Giovanni has to flush out money just to get them out of prison. And think of all their schemes laid ruin because they happen to run into Ash or one of his friends.

The irony of Jessie, James, and Meowth is that they never quit even if they were kicked out of Team Rocket and left with no fundings. They persisted and ironically, that's what got them back on Giovanni's good grace. Not because they are actually competent because they were always following Ash who always foil the other villainous teams and criminals wherever he goes, thus reducing the competition for the Team Rocket organization as a whole.

Agent2583 Secret Agent2583 from [CLASSIFIED] Since: Sep, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Secret Agent2583
#21743: Dec 25th 2021 at 12:19:31 AM

[up][up][up] I love how you kept misnaming Butch's name. I'm so glad that gag is going to come back soon.

Stakes are higher for Ash this season but new generations of the Pokemon Anime will probably still keep Ash. He's so iconic there's no point of replacing him. Travelling the world is great even if he doesn't beat Leon in the end.

Edited by Agent2583 on Dec 25th 2021 at 8:19:55 PM

DonaldthePotholer from Miami's In-State Rival (Emeritus Troper) Relationship Status: Married to the job
#21744: Dec 25th 2021 at 10:02:54 AM

What I'm hoping is that Marnie becomes (aside from possibly a repeat battle against Iris) Ash's final rival prior to facing Raihan for the right to enter the Masters Eight. Or perhaps Raihan will come first followed by Ash having to defend his position against Marnie and/or Iris. Granted, that'll probably relegate her to a two- or three-parter along with maybe a few mentions as the up-and-coming Galarian Star.

Oh, and I've held Let's Go to be Kanto in the 3DS/Mega timeline except that Giovanni bided his time for 3 years, such that Red wasn't in region when he finally struck.

LilyLopunny Cleanup specialist from middle of nowhere Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Sharing a spaghetti noodle
Cleanup specialist
#21745: Dec 25th 2021 at 11:35:54 AM

Wait why would Marnie of all people be Masters 8? Wouldn't more Champions make sense, like Wallace, Steven, Alder or Diantha? Or even Frontier Brains maybe?

"Be the change you want to see in the world." My bf and I being the change: www.twitch.tv/lilyandfloatzel https://discord.gg/z7PmdTksVj
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#21746: Dec 25th 2021 at 1:21:34 PM

So if Butch is on a farm with Meowzie, what's Cassidy up to?

The Protomen enhanced my life.
precita Since: Jan, 2014
#21747: Dec 25th 2021 at 6:42:42 PM

If anything Ash will probably battle Piers, while Marnie is a beginning trainer just starting her journey and there to give him some extra development. If Hop ever appears this series he'll probably do the same with Leon, obviously beginning trainers can't be Ash's rivals this season, especially now that we're late into the arc.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#21748: Dec 25th 2021 at 6:45:26 PM

I can't believe the thing that keeps bothering me is whether Ash always used the same Tauros every time or not.

Wake me up at your own risk.
DonaldthePotholer from Miami's In-State Rival (Emeritus Troper) Relationship Status: Married to the job
#21749: Dec 26th 2021 at 8:39:48 AM

IIRC, in-game, Piers recognized Marnie as the better trainer when she started out and wanted her to take the Gym when she came of age. So, to me, it makes more sense for Ash to battle Marnie than Piers; Marnie being in Ultra is a stretch, but only a minor one. (I never said that she'd be in Masters Eight; I only implied that Raihan's seat on the Eight will come down to the winner of Ash vs Marnie unless Iris comes back.)note 

And unless Ash is already in the teens,note  he'll still need a few more opponents to defeat before his rating is high enough to promote.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#21750: Dec 26th 2021 at 10:42:08 AM

So....

What episode was this from?

Also, I'm surprised we haven't had a full on Fusion Dance mechanic yet. Sure, there's the lore with Reshiram and Zekrom, and their own fusions with Kyurem (who's a byproduct of the former two's separation), and there's also the thing with Nekrozma fusing with Solgaleo and Lunala.

And we kinda have the School Form of Wishiwashi, and the lore behind how Slowpoke becomes Slowbro and Slowking. There are lots of examples, just as there were kinda already examples of mons having other forms (mostly with the legendaries, and primarily alternate forms rather than the super modes that Mega Evolution lean towards).

Then again, maybe they've avoided it because it's kinda obvious, and they want to avoid the comparisons with both Digimon and SMT.

One Strip! One Strip!

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