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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
Aug 20th 2019 at 5:48:31 AM

The series is literally about competing mons against each other, catching more and getting stronger.

If Tournaments weren't supposed to be important then that's the fault of the Anime, not the fans.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Aug 20th 2019 at 5:56:16 AM

[up] Plus, considering Ash has pushed and motivated so many people's lives, improved the situations of a lot of Pokemon, and has a heart strong enough to get legendaries to help him out or befriend him, yeah, Ash isn't perfect, but there's more to him than just his losses. Where would Charmander, Chimchar, and Tepig (i don't consider them repeat) be if Ash wasn't around. But sure, he's nothing more than a loser...yup.

Dr.XXX The Mad Doctor
The Mad Doctor
Aug 20th 2019 at 7:24:11 AM

It's really the fault of the anime not not placing any proper importance on Ash's goal. When you see characters like a knight slaying a dragon to save a princess, you have a pretty clear cut goal. With Ash, I don't know his goals at all. We know it has something to do with leagues, but we don't know a damn thing about what the goal is.

Edited by Dr.XXX on Aug 20th 2019 at 10:25:41 AM

Blueace Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Aug 20th 2019 at 7:34:05 AM

As it is, might as well change it to make him want to be a Ranger or a member of the International Police so he at least gets a salary from all the stuff he already does.

TitanJump Be thorough, be curious...be human. Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Be thorough, be curious...be human.
Aug 20th 2019 at 7:35:45 AM

[up][up] His "goal" is to become a "Pokemon Master"...

The problem with it is how infernally vague that goal is and he clearly have zero clue about what even the title means, to the point where he just ends up wandering around and trying everything that crosses his path in his blind attempts on pursuing that title, without having come even one inch closer to it despite traveling through, what? seven-eight regions? And spent 22 years (in real life time since the series first started 1997) while doing so?

It's frustrating to watch his progress getting nowhere, to say the least...

Edited by TitanJump on Aug 20th 2019 at 4:37:00 PM

Madness: an author's most magnificent muse and house maid.
AjWargo Lord Barglebroth, Come For Your Souls! from Westfeild, New Jersey
Lord Barglebroth, Come For Your Souls!
Aug 20th 2019 at 8:39:27 AM

[up]That’s why I despise the people who write this show. All they had to do was make some progress, any would do. But they continue to deny us any satisfaction.

Check out my fanfiction account here!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
Aug 20th 2019 at 9:55:42 AM

Because it's a children's show designed to go on indefinitely; Ash having a vague and non-descript goal means the writers can put him in any situation and justify as him trying to become a Pokemon Master.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Shadao Surprised Satoshi
Surprised Satoshi
Aug 20th 2019 at 10:14:05 AM

A Pokémon Master is quite simple: To be the very best like no one ever else.

And that is not a destination, it's a drive. Like Goku seeking out the strongest opponents in the universe and multiverse. Only difference is that Pokémon doesn't have to introduce reality-destroying gods and multiverse competitions to keep Ash on his toes.

Here's the Sink: Hate Sink Drafts | Hate Sink Dates | Hate Sink To Do Lists | Pending Write-Ups
Aug 20th 2019 at 10:51:04 AM

Truthfully, I kinda like how the recent anime tends to toy around with Ash's "loser" status, making him something a goofy underdog. He kind of has a Po like archetype to him, acts like a mix of The Fool and someone who is genuinely competent and accomplished when in their element.

The last series made him the moral victor of the league, but I think people were so damn frustrated by XY's trolling concerning him finally winning a league that they couldn't appreciate message sent through the Flare arc (though admittedly it didn't help the legendaries kinda usurped that accomplishment last second).

It kinda feels like it's meant to be sort of the twist that he spends all his time on a Sisyphean quest but the by product is thousands of accomplishments he barely remembers.

Edited by Psi001 on Aug 20th 2019 at 6:52:16 PM

Aug 20th 2019 at 11:00:08 AM

Bulbapedia has an article on Pokemon Master that says it was deliberately kept vague to enhance the speculation about it. There's a D/P era interview that says when Ash DOES become a Pokemon Master it will be the last episode, period.

Edited by lalalei2001 on Aug 20th 2019 at 11:00:24 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
Aug 20th 2019 at 11:02:42 AM

So....never.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
FrozenWolf2 Just an Old Mon from Stuck in Kanto
Just an Old Mon
Aug 21st 2019 at 6:55:53 AM

Boo

"You ever breathe through more then one opening boy? Once I get better you be sure to let me know what its like."
TitanJump Be thorough, be curious...be human. Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Be thorough, be curious...be human.
Aug 21st 2019 at 7:23:07 AM

[up][up][up] So he's going to be Japan's "Peter Pan" (and with is "Tinkerbell"/Pikachu and The Terrible Trio/"Pirate Crew" following him right along for the ride) until either the creator or us the viewers, bite the dust before seeing him finally grow up?

Madness: an author's most magnificent muse and house maid.
Aug 21st 2019 at 7:25:27 AM

In fairness it's not like many others in the cast really grow or reach their ultimate goal either. As far as I know Misty is still 10 as well. tongue

TitanJump Be thorough, be curious...be human. Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Be thorough, be curious...be human.
Aug 21st 2019 at 7:29:51 AM

[up] Oh...My...

We've been in Pokemon "Neverland" all along!

Edited by TitanJump on Aug 21st 2019 at 4:30:06 PM

Madness: an author's most magnificent muse and house maid.
Aug 22nd 2019 at 8:39:37 PM

Ouch, even this Team Rocket profile mock's Ash's tournament record.

"She's been so successful in this realm that it's clear she could have a second career—she made it all the way to the semifinal round of the Sinnoh Grand Festival (“Coming Full-Festival Circle!”). A certain Twerp who wants to be a Pokémon Master has only achieved that placement in a major region's Pokémon League competition twice, and he's been trying for 20 seasons!"

Shadao Surprised Satoshi
Surprised Satoshi
Aug 22nd 2019 at 11:45:09 PM

[up] And how is Jessie in the Alola League? Oh that's right, eliminated by James. tongue

No matter how much Jessie tries to make herself feel better, her chance of winning any major tournaments is 0%.

Here's the Sink: Hate Sink Drafts | Hate Sink Dates | Hate Sink To Do Lists | Pending Write-Ups
AjWargo Lord Barglebroth, Come For Your Souls! from Westfeild, New Jersey
Lord Barglebroth, Come For Your Souls!
Aug 23rd 2019 at 6:02:57 AM

[up][up] So even the company themselves is getting in on the trend of bashing Ash. There really is no hope for them if they outright know Ash is a failure yet refuse to do anything about it.

Check out my fanfiction account here!
HandsomeRob Completely trustworthy from The world that never was Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Completely trustworthy
Aug 23rd 2019 at 7:27:17 AM

...

That's bullshit.

Truthfully, there's not much difference between the Trio and Ash (and there never was; they were all kinda losers) except for one thing: Ash grew and improved as the series went on, and had things continued on that bent, would have likely won a league eventually.

Jessie, James and Meowth (Jessie especially) never learn and never change. They are exactly the same as they were when they first showed up (in personality; in their first appearance, they were actually somewhat menacing).

The biggest difference is that those three are supposed to be like that; their failures are as much due to their characters (insisting on being villains despite being awful at it and even with large amounts of proof that they'd be better off doing anything else) as it is the narrative demand that they lose.

In contrast, Ash's failures are entirely on the narrative at this point: it's not any failure or lack of skill on his part that keeps him from winning. It's entirely on higher ups and writers who insist on not letting him win because they truly believe the series would end (they've said as much) and since they never intend to let the series end, the bullshit just keeps going on forever.

So the official site taking shots at him for not winning is massive bullshit. Massive massive bullshit.

Everyone is XEHANORT
FrozenWolf2 Just an Old Mon from Stuck in Kanto
Just an Old Mon
Aug 23rd 2019 at 9:12:31 AM

... You realize Winning isn't everything right?

I mean HBK Mr Wrestlemania himself is 6-11 at the Show of Shows

"You ever breathe through more then one opening boy? Once I get better you be sure to let me know what its like."
Aug 23rd 2019 at 9:25:45 AM

It isn't, but it's nice to throw the dog a bone every once in a while. I understand most people bring up Kalos being a moral victory, but that doesn't make it better for some.

HandsomeRob Completely trustworthy from The world that never was Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Completely trustworthy
Aug 23rd 2019 at 9:33:00 AM

The moral victory would work better if he wasn't after robbing him of 5 other victories.

Sunnah and Unova were particularly bad.

Because the Moral Victory idea does kinda work, but with the context that they stole another win from him, the entire thing is soured. Plus we all know it's just a justification for their refusal to let him bow out like he should have years ago.

Everyone is XEHANORT
Aug 23rd 2019 at 9:48:28 AM

The reason the moral victory didn't work for me isn't the loss in itself. It feels like something that works for Alain's story (depending on how invested you are in it), but not necessarily for Ash's.

Edited by Cross on Aug 23rd 2019 at 12:49:54 PM

AjWargo Lord Barglebroth, Come For Your Souls! from Westfeild, New Jersey
Lord Barglebroth, Come For Your Souls!
Aug 23rd 2019 at 9:51:56 AM

[up] You know what I feel one of the biggest insults about Alain winning was? After he won, there was this victorious sounding music in the aftermath of the battle as if we were supposed to support his victory. The writers felt we would honestly focus more on him instead of Ash!

Edited by AjWargo on Aug 23rd 2019 at 12:52:57 PM

Check out my fanfiction account here!
Aug 23rd 2019 at 10:05:24 AM

hey, so are there things people like about Unova? Cuz its my second least favorite region behind the original series, but I feel like I'm the only one who actually liked certain aspects of it.


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