Pokémon anime

I hate to say this, Shadao, but based upon the episode descriptions, that could very well happen.

Edit: Now here’s a horrifying thought that just occurred to me: the writers may try another dirty trick for the Guzma battle that results in another overturned win.

Edited by AjWargo on Aug 11th 2019 at 8:27:21 AM

I can't help but laugh at how the Anime is portraying Guzma's battling as wrong...when he hasn't actually broken any rules.

Its that annoying trend in kids shows that when the good guys use certain strategies, they're portrayed as being geniuses, but when bad guys do it, they're portrayed as heartless and brutal.

It's so eye roll inducing.

I think what the anime is trying to show is that Guzma's style of battling is brutal and terrifying, not necessarily "wrong" - which it certainly is. That battle between Primarina and Golisopod was basically a lite version of Videl vs. Spopavich from DBZ.

LOL, I was just looking through some old posts from 2013 which was during BW when the title for Charizard's return came out, and Misty/Brock's Japanese VA's were credited and people thought they were going to show up in person (they just appeared in re-animated Season 1 flashbacks instead).

Imagine if Misty/Brock's return happened back in BW rather than SM? Keep in mind this is pre-XY so Mega Evolutions didn't exist yet, so they couldn't do that aspect with them as they did Back then Misty had also had a long absence in the series and people thought she'd never show up again. Fast forward 4 years later to 2017, and she showed up.

It's kind of surreal reading old posts from previous sagas and reading old speculation now with the knowledge of what came to pass or not. Going even further back to DP-era discussion and people thinking Ash would win the Sinnoh league or that Brock would never leave the cast again permanently, lol

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You could argue Guzma represents the old school trainer before the Gimmick transformations and Super moves became prominent and is lashing back

Why is Guzma dangerous cause he's mons are Well Trained and his strategies don't revovle around SUREKILL techs

Scizor defeated Mega Khangiskan by being Smarter

Godlisopod won with just cause you have Z moves doesn't mean your at the hieght of your strength.

Guzma's rejection of the idea isn't Neccesarily wrong, since Guzma shows that being reliant of Super techniquies leaves you with little option.

I mean Alain and Ash were basically poster boys for this idea back in XY when if Battle Bond or Mega Evovle didn't work the fight was over.

Guzma being brutal makes him the villain sure... but you could argue that He's become so cynical about the direction of the pokemon world that in a room filled with Super moves and transformation... being Ruthless and Effecient is the only equalizing factor.

Sure, Guzma's attitude is certainly a problem without a doubt but his battle skills are fine for the most part.

Even the Primarina fight, as brutal as it was, isn't against any rules and Guz wasn't being sadistic either, hell he was annoyed that they kept trying to fight back despite being outmatched.

If Guzma was just a bit more insufferable, it'd work better because his grudge is mainly with Kukui and pretty much dismisses everyone else. He's just...not as bad as the series is trying to make him.

Designated Villain?

BTW, Ash-Guzma should be the final.

Next match, Ash asks for a side swap halfway through, and wins.

I'm sorry I couldn't resist.

Well, I bet whatever additional wins Ash has in this League are going to be tainted even more by atrocious writing. If the writers were willing to sacrifice giving Hau a proper defeat to Ash and instead just threw a dumb joke that no one liked in there, what’s to say they won’t do this again with Guzma?

What makes this whole tournament feel off is that the driving antagonistic force of it (Guzma) is being fought by the main character...in the semifinals. Which means the emotional core of this arc will be settled now, which is going to leave the finals between Ash and Gladion/Kiawe feel extremely lacking by comparison.

Well Ash/Gladion is the main rivalry of SM. Also I don't think Guzma is just going to disappear after the league ends, I think team skull will have some kind of final episode after it.

Its the main rivalry, but its not really central to the story as of now.

Depending on how many eps are left after the league, I'm really surprised the Ultra beasts didn't get one last sendoff. The Poipole Ash captured never did come back. Really strange because they usually don't just have Ash release a pokemon anymore mid-series not to have it return at least once.

The only part of the UB plotline that's still outstanding is Mohn, and that seems to be rather disconnected from the UB in this timeline, since they're all accounted for.

Maybe they're going to have Mohn be part of a Special. Or, he could be in Galar.

Anyway, check Panel 3: Portent of things to come, or The Last Straw before an Upset?

You know, its not like Gladion did anything wrong. He helped when she was in trouble.

It'd be kind ungrateful for Kiawe to hold a grudge over that, siscon that he may be.

True, but I don't think these guys will miss the chance to make a gag.

With luck, if they do, it won't last very long, but siscon jokes are dangerous I'd say.

The hilarious part is that they're both siscons on their own way, Kiawe is just more...enthusiastic about it.

I could see them bonding over that actually, being protective older brothers.

....that could work.

Much better than my cynical shit.

Good job buddy.

For some added hilarity; Gladion and Kiawe share their voice actors with Bakugo and Iida respectively.

We're getting a fight we never had in that series.

Wait what about....right they were on the same team. Damnit!

Anyways, this whole Designated Villain status for Guzma....I call horsecrap.

• What makes Guzma a villain is his intentions. Like I get it, you don't like Megas, Z Moves, Dynamaxes, they can be cheap and give people unfair wins and advantages. And he proves himself in his matches.
  • He's also got Team Skull roaming around harassing people and trying to get turf....I don't think they've stealing Pokemon. And techincally what they are doing isn't wrong at face values. They're a group of trainers with no home going around battling people.
  • And yeah, most of the League are inexperienced kids who battle based on "school based tactics".
  • And yeah, who wouldn't want the league to end. Deciding the strongest trainer through a bunch of randos isn't fair: in theory.
  • And Guzma's personality shouldn't matter....in theory. HOWEVER

• The problems are that:
  • A) people have used Megas and Z Moves skillfully and immaturely and even in the league. In terms of Mega Evolutions, Ash's Pikachu took down a Mega Lucario, who before had to go through a character arc revolving around controlling its power as a Mega. And in terms of Z Moves, we've had people use them to counter or overpower another, some have been outright EVADED, some trainer's Pokemon have broken out of them, some Pokemon have even take on Z Moves HEAD ON, and most of these examples are in the damn league, and yet people consider Guzma to be in the right. *** Guzma's basically being discriminatory to those who use Z Moves and Mega Evolutions without considering whether or not the trainer is skilled or has a strong bond with their trainers enough to use them, how skilled a trainer is overall beyond a basic trainer, and beliving they only rely on Z Moves to win. You can argue battles have ended with Z Moves, making them Antio Climax as a result, but the rest of the battle isn't being fairly judged despite that. Lana vs Mallow just had one counteracting for
  • Ash controversial as this sounds,( at least 7 members of the Pokemon school or former students have made it to the top 16 on their abilities alone), Ash, Kiawe, and Lana are basically the monster trio of their class, and most of their wins haven't been Ass Pull (s) despite the controversy with some of Ash's wins. Plus, despite the Weakling Trio's gap in strength, there's no deny with their adventures they have some skill. Who expected Sophocles to make it to top 8, and even though Mallow's the weakest in terms of strategy, they've captured Ultra Beasts, so even the weakest of the team have competence to at least be a part of the tournament.
  • Besides, there was already a battle royale to weed out the weak. Guzma could've just had all of Team Skull go after anyone affilated with Kukui, but he didn't. And if he did, he wouldn't have anyone to give him a proper challenge. When you crush everyone, you'll have no one else to battle. And Then What??
  • The pokemon champion always shows an example of strength, leadership, respect, and an example for all the other trainers to aspire to and one day beat. Without cheating, as long as you win, it shouldn't matter how you get there. Guzma could be the champion on skill alone but he's too judgemental to decide how anyone battles. Yeah he'll have the clout, but that's coming from fear rather than power and all Team Skull has done in the anime minus that one episode was just target people who seem weak, and then lose to the protagonists and even Team Rocket. Guzma's followers are the anti-thesis to his ideology. Plus, the kahunas point this out, Guzma's struggled in both his battles a bit against Illia and Lana and Guzma still demoans them despite being caught off guard against both them. If Guzma won and instilled his rules, Pokemon battles wouldn't be a fun match between skilled rivals, it'd be nothing more than a snuff fest between who can brutality make the opposing Pokemon suffer first. So yeah, he could give his opponents a bit more crd.

Sorry if this comes off stupid and fragmented, just came off the top of my head.

Guzma is motivated by vengeance rather than determination. That's why he's the villain. He's not really trying to prove a point about Z-Move as much as he is trying to beat up anyone he perceives to be the reason why he failed. That's why he wants to destroy the Pokémon League rather than simply win it.

Villain Has a Point, yes. But how he approaches it is wrong. And honestly, he won't find happiness even if he wins. Despite trying to be better than the Z-Moves and Mega Evolutions, he never seems to be happy because of it. He's a Lighter and Softer version of Killmonger in that sense.

Hey, instead of Torracat, why can't we have Guzma's team face off against Greninja? Let's see how Guzma handles a purely natural Battle Bond.

So Kahili is "weak" in this continuity?

Then again, Dr. Kukui is not blameless. While he rightly knows that having a full tourney with 150 matches would be too taxing on 4 referees, a Battle Royale was the wrong solution. If 150 matches is too much, then he should not have allowed "inexperienced kids who battle based on 'school based tactics'" into the League just to be shot down as Cannon Fodder. Where's the fun in that?

Plus, a Battle Royale doesn't test your battling skill but rather your survival skill: Let the aggros cut each other down, along with the obvious names and those that rise up; just spam "DODGE!" and you should make the cut. (Unless your "DODGE!"ing makes you "rise up"...) Of course, if Ash's unit advanced because they were acting as a team, it would prove Ash's leadership skill at the cost of making "strength" meaningless. Then again, if that was the case, then Ash already beat Guzma, whose Mooks all fell, leaving him as the only survivor of his squad. ^note I wouldn't be surprised if the trainer that would have been 17th was a member of Team Skull who Guzma eliminated so that he could advance.

What should have been done is require that entrants have passed a certain number of trials as certified by a Kahuna. Sure, this would have locked out the Weakling Trio, but it would have lightened the Kahunas' workload. And if Guzma would have been DQed by that standard, then you could have had Team Skull attack the League on that basis.

Again, I am stunned by the fact that they even let Guzma into the Leauge to begin with. Why would they let someone who is a known criminal participate in a tournament? Kukui Didn't Think This Through when he said anyone could join!

They let Team Rocket in too, though at least they were disguised.

Well, at least the other are always too stupid, for some reason, to see through Team Rocket’s disguises. But by that logic, the members of Team Skull should have been disguised and they weren’t. Lalakei, if you were a writer for this show, would you have let someone like Cyrus or Ghetsis to take part in a Leauge?