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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#10026: Nov 6th 2025 at 12:18:30 PM

He's not literally supposed to be a samurai.

He has a slick samurai like aesthetic, there is a difference.

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 6th 2025 at 12:18:50 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
datspidergirl Writing Royalty from Nunya, USA Since: Oct, 2025 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Writing Royalty
#10027: Nov 6th 2025 at 12:26:06 PM

It's kinda hilarious how when G1 Drift first appeared - back before he got Rescued from the Scrappy Heap - one of the big criticisms he got was people feeling he came off too much as a stereotypical weeaaboo OC like the sort that would be created by a guy whose knowledge of Japanese culture begins and ends at thinking katanas are cool. And than Bay came along and said "oh, so Drift should just straight up be a Japanese stereotype, okay".

Oh. It's testosterone time!
Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#10028: Nov 6th 2025 at 12:33:47 PM

It's also kinda weird since the only blatantly "samurai" aesthetic I could see about the original Drift was his swords. The rest of his design took more after Japanese mecha like Gundam.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#10029: Nov 6th 2025 at 12:36:49 PM

Drift's is basically the Asian-coded Transformer at this point. Robots in Disguise had the samurai motif for him, and he was voiced by an Asian voice actor.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#10030: Nov 6th 2025 at 12:41:39 PM

[up][up] They misinterpreted his design.

He's based on Japanese drift cars, like street racing and all that.

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 6th 2025 at 12:42:03 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#10031: Nov 6th 2025 at 12:50:39 PM

He's not literally supposed to be a samurai.

We literally see a picture of him in the 1800 alongside another Samurai robot, in Japan, in inside a japanese building. He literally is a Samurai.

He's literally photoshopped into an historial RL picture of RL historical Samurai.

Edited by Ghilz on Nov 6th 2025 at 3:54:50 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#10032: Nov 6th 2025 at 12:54:49 PM

[up] Thats not what I meant.

I meant that while Drift has a samurai aesthetic, the movie shouldn't have made him a borderline human in samurai armor.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#10033: Nov 6th 2025 at 12:56:27 PM

And it shouldn't have made Skids and Mudflap fucking minstrel characters (or at all). And it did.

Bayverse Drift is a Samurai. The same way Movie 4 and 5 Optimus is a Knight, despite other Optimuses not being knights.

It's kinda hilarious how when G1 Drift first appeared - back before he got Rescued from the Scrappy Heap - one of the big criticisms he got was people feeling he came off too much as a stereotypical weeaaboo OC like the sort that would be created by a guy whose knowledge of Japanese culture begins and ends at thinking katanas are cool. And than Bay came along and said "oh, so Drift should just straight up be a Japanese stereotype, okay".

I mean, both are true. It's also worth remembering Context, Drift was introduced out of nowhere to major fanfare. Getting almost immediately his own Spotlight comic. And an appearance in a book meant to push another toy series which didn't have a Drift Figure.

Edited by Ghilz on Nov 6th 2025 at 4:00:56 AM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#10034: Nov 7th 2025 at 7:51:49 AM

So, I'm continuing my Transformers marathon and have recently finished the first season of Beast Machines. I have... thoughts...

Beast Wars is one of my favorite Transformers series, but I've never actually gotten around to watching Beast Machines until now (aside from watching a few episodes as a little kid), mostly because of the reputation the show had. And watching the first season, I can say that a lot of my preconceptions of the show were right. Beast Machines is a frustrating watch. Not because the show is necessarily bad, but because I think the show is undermined by the fact it is a sequel to Beast Wars and oftentimes has to fit a square-peg in a round-hole when it comes to the characters.

Let's start with some positives. I think the premise of the show is actually quite good and a bit unique among Transformers series. After the events of Beast Wars, the Maximals find themselves on Cybertron, except things have gone to hell. Megatron is in charge, has captured the sparks of all Cybertronians and replaced them with his mindless Vehicons. While we've had series where the bad guys have taken over Cybertron, it's rare to see one where Megatron's rule is as extensive as here. The Maximals are underdogs barely struggling to survive while Megatron has complete control over nearly every aspect of the planet. The themes of nature vs. technology, individuality, and dangers of extremism are certainly ambitious, even if some of the execution can bit hit or miss at times. Mainframe was definitely improving their animation skills (even if a lot of the Maximal designs were kinda ugly), and the voice cast was clearly giving it their all.

I think where the show falters is the execution of most its ideas. There's some plot threads that feel like they're a few rewrites from being genuinely good, and others that I really struggle to see how they could make them work. The show is almost ambitious to a fault. For a show set entirely on Cybertron, a lot of the settings kind of blur together and make individual episodes harder to stand out. Nearly every scene takes place at night, and get a bit repetitive when you have the Maximals getting chased by the Vehicons in random Cybertronian hallways for the 20th time in a row. The show is basically one serialized story, so binge-watching the show is the preferred way of watching it. I can't imagine what the show was like watching it on a week-to-week basis. The show's music also isn't as good as Beast Wars, feeling a lot more repetitious with harsh synthesizer music. This is also the only Transformers show that used a licensed track for the theme song with "Phat Planet". It's not a bad song at all, but I don't think it quite works as a theme song for a Transformers series.

And that brings us to the show's characters, which is where a lot of my problems with the show lie. As I said, the idea behind a lot of their arcs on the show are decent, but aren't executed as well as they could've been if you're a fan of their Beast Wars characterizations. Some of this I can excuse given the extreme situation they're put in... others not so much.

    Assorted Character Thoughts 

Let's start with Optimus Primal. Optimus' arc is a bit hard for me to talk much about, since I feel we're only at the halfway point of his series, but I know some of the Broad Strokes and I can see what they're going for. Optimus was always someone who felt the pressures of leadership, and here we get to see that reached to its breaking limit. After seeing what's happened on Cybertron and unintentionally letting Megatron take over the planet, Optimus is remorseful and is desperate to find a way to atone for what he's done. In this desperate mindset, he takes solace in the Oracle (the shell program for Vector Sigma). It almost feels like someone turning to religion after a traumatic experience, with Optimus turning himself over to a higher power to lessen the burden on himself. But this gives him a bit of a one-tracked mind and leaves him vulnerable to manipulation when Tankor corrupts the Oracle for his own purposes. Optimus having to struggle with becoming just as much as fanatic as Megatron is an interesting concept. But I feel like Optimus being so gung-ho about restoring the organic parts of Cybertron aren't fully developed aside from him differing completely to the Oracle. Why is growing a bunch of plants a bigger priority for him then trying to stop Megatron? He seems to think bringing organic life back to Cybertron is inherently a good thing, when there's been evidence to the contrary (such as the fruits that made them dumber or the plants attacking Rattrap) and I'm not that's an intentional character flaw.

Cheetor's arc is probably the best-executed. After seeing Optimus' judgment slip, Cheetor starts butting heads with him over how to lead the Maximals. It's one of the better-handled conflicts in the show, since you can see both sides of the argument. Optimus isn't wrong for not wanting to take unnecessary risks, but Cheetor has a point that they should be more proactive and making more strategic strikes against Megatron. Cheetor still growing from being the Kid-Appeal Character to being a capable (if sometimes reckless) leader in their own right is a natural progression of his character.

Rattrap was my favourite character in Beast Wars, and... yeah, he wasn't really done much justice here. I like the concept of his arc in principle, but the execution was lacking. After the Maximals get their new technorganic bodies, Rattrap is the only one really struggles with transforming and is stuck in his beast-mode for a while. Over time, Rattrap feels more and more like a burden on the team because he can't transform, which isn't helped by some of his teammates feeling the same way. The thing is Rattrap was always one of the weaker Maximals in Beast Wars, but he always knew how to be resourceful to get around that. Rattrap fought dirty, he used explosives and sneak attacks. Dude took out Ravage's spaceship single-handily. But for most of the first season, almost everyone treats him like he's completely useless. It gets to the point where Rattrap resorts to helping Megatron when he's at his most vulnerable just so he can get some sort of leg-up. The Maximal who once said "Better dead than Pred'" helping Megatron instead of trying to end the war here and now? It just feels... wrong and completely forced. Worse, despite this being a huge betrayal of trust, everyone just forgives Rattrap by the end of the episode and nobody ever mentions it again. You think they'd bring it up more often and it'd play a larger role in Rattrap's arc, like when Dinobot briefly rejoined the Predacons in Beast Wars. But no, everything's back to normal.

I felt like Blackarachnia had a lot of her edges sanded off in this series. Her main concern through most of the series is getting Silverbolt back, often going behind her team's back during missions. I don't mind that, but that's pretty much the only thing they really gave her. Blackarachnia was always an opportunist and schemer, trying to weave webs of her own behind her allies' back. We don't really get a lot of that here. I'm not saying she should've allied with Megatron or anything, but her role in the show is pretty much defined by her trying to save Silverbolt, and that wasn't really the case before. She gets the occasional Deadpan Snarker moment, but she overall feels a lot more softer in Beast Machines and it doesn't feel like that was a natural development.

Nightscream is the new member to the Maximals, and he apparently got a lot of hate from the fans for being an annoying and whiny teen. Eh, I can kind of see that. I don't he's that bad. I can understand his angst after being the sole survivor of Megatron's conquest of Cybertron and suddenly getting mixed up with a team he knows nothing about. He's not the most developed Maximal so far, but we do get some moments like when he feels guilt over having to abandon so many people just to survive on his own. I say his biggest issue is that his main character trait is that he has a chip on his shoulder, when everyone in the cast has a chip on their shoulder. He comes across like another person to get snippy at others when everyone's like that.

Moving over to the villains, Megatron has changed quite a bit. No longer the vaudevillian Large Ham from Beast Wars, Megatron is a much more grim and bitter villain here. The contrast works for the most part, given the darker tone of the series. Megatron still feels like a threat and still has the cunning he displayed before. We're just seeing the final stages of his goals. Although I really do miss how he written in Beast Wars. He's not as fun to watch when he's holed up in his fortress through most of the series. He also has a sudden aversion to his beast mode, which is never really properly explained when he never had any issues with his beast modes before. That kind of hurts the series, since Megatron's hatred of organics is primarily expressed through his attempts to purge his beast mode and the nature vs. technology conflict of the show is mainly expressed through that. The reframing of the conflict between the Maximals and Megatron into one of organics vs. technology doesn't quite work when Megatron's reasons feel arbitrary aside from a general "Megatron doesn't like fleshies".

The new Vehicon generals were a neat way to give some personality to Megatron's troops, and them containing the sparks of older characters was an interesting way to add conflict. Jetstorm is probably my favourite character in the show so far. Brian Drummond is having so much fun playing him. His Card-Carrying Villain status really adds a lot of much needed levity to the show. Thrust doesn't have as much going for him aside from Blackarachnia believing he's Silverbolt because he's saved her a few times... only for it to turn out to be Waspinator instead. The twist that Jetstorm is actually Silverbolt felt a bit unnecessary for me, since it felt like a twist for the sake of a twist and it renders a lot of Thrust's characterization a bit confusing. So, Waspinator was able to influence Thrust's personality enough to save Blackarachnia, but Silverbolt wasn't? I know will be done with the Jetstorm/Silverbolt plot, but it seems off to me.

And then there's Tankor, or rather Rhinox. Hoo boy. Of all the characters from Beast Wars, Rhinox was done the dirtiest. The wise and peaceful Maximal who once told Optimus he'd rather smell flowers than lead the Maximals is now a power-hungry madman who thinks Megatron enslaving all life on Cybertron is the ethically right choice? I have no idea how they came to this decision, but it just fundamentally does not make sense for Rhinox's character to do. You could argue that Rhinox's spark was messed up during the transfer to Tankor's body, but the show always treats it like Rhinox made the choice to become evil and that he wasn't corrupted. The thing is, I actually liked seeing Tankor try to pit Optimus and Megatron against each other for his own agenda. I like seeing third parties interfere with conflicts like that. But using Rhinox for that just keeps me from enjoying it as much as I want to. It's a shame.

I'm reserving my final thoughts for Beast Machines when I finish season two, but my impressions so far are decidedly mixed. I'm appreciating a lot of what the show is trying to do and how ambitious it is, but I think the connections to Beast Wars hurt more than they help. I wonder if the show had starred a new cast if it would've worked better, but who's to say. I feel like a lot of this show could've been really good had the cast felt a bit more consistent with how they were written before, but I guess that ship's kind of sailed at this point. I wouldn't mind another Transformers series tackling some of the same themes and concepts from Beast Machines, since if they were developed a bit more, you could have a fantastic Transformers series.

As it stands, Beast Machines is mostly a conflicting watch so far. I'll see if season two is an improvement.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#10035: Nov 7th 2025 at 7:55:20 AM

Beast Machine gets alot better if you watch is as a standalone thing and not a sequel to Beast Wars. Like, when it references the events of Beast Wars you treat it like when Earthspark references stuff in G1.

datspidergirl Writing Royalty from Nunya, USA Since: Oct, 2025 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Writing Royalty
#10036: Nov 7th 2025 at 8:16:36 AM

[up]That's well said.

While I still have a ton of issues with Beast Machines, I've definitely come to appreciate it a lot more as I've gotten older and further away from the irritation over it being the follow-up to the masterful Beast Wars. It's got it's issues, it's far from perfect, but it's also arguably one of the biggest leaps forward for the series and honestly a pretty impressive accomplishment. It deserves more love and respect for the things it did right.

At the very least, I've come to be a more understanding of it's flaws considering it's now known that it's worst issues are because it's crew was basically forbidden from engaging with any prior Transformers work by a dipshit executive who felt that Beast Wars was "too continuity-heavy" and that Beast Machines should have no real ties or restrictions relatingnto prior series. Leaving said crew basically trying to do a sequel while having basically no understanding of what they were making a sequel to and compensating by crafting together whatever they could using their own original ideas and what bits lore of made it through the corporate fog. Considering those circumstances and others, it's downright impressive Beast Machines is as well-made as it is.

Said executive was the infamous Dan DiDio prior to the horrors he unleashed on DC Comics when he took power there. Talk about eerie foreshadowing.

Oh. It's testosterone time!
WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#10037: Nov 7th 2025 at 9:16:25 AM

I like that Tankor brings a third faction with its own agenda to the series, which helped add depth in the same way Tarantulas did in Beast Wars. Unfortunately, they can't make up their mind if Tankor is just Rhinox but brainwashed and evil, or Rhinox is just like this now of his own free will. When they restore Rhinox's personality they make it very clear that he's choosing to do this, and it would be wrong to change him to make him like he was, but then in early Season 2 There's a super brief scene where Rhinox apologizes for everything he did as Tankor and that he was completely in the wrong, so I'm not sure what the takeaway is.

Edited by WillKeaton on Nov 7th 2025 at 10:47:49 AM

datspidergirl Writing Royalty from Nunya, USA Since: Oct, 2025 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Writing Royalty
#10038: Nov 7th 2025 at 9:31:13 AM

[up]Bob Skir explained after the show was over that his intent when writing the whole Tankor/Rhinox arc was that Rhinox had been swayed to Megatron's techno-purity ideology of his own free will and simply felt Megatron was the wrong person - morally and practically - to accomplish the ideal (again, showing that Skir was doing his best while being denied any real knowledge of what he was writing a sequel for), and that after Rhinox dies at the end of season one, his spirit realized the error of his ways and advises Optimus against such extremism from the afterlife. But it seems there was either some miscommunication or outright Writer Revolt somewhere along the line and we ended up getting super mixed messages.

The characters would talk and act like Rhinox switched sides of his own volition, but the visuals and Richard Newman's own performance make the idea seem more like Rhinox was driven mad by lingering influence from Tankor's programming, down to things like an image of Rhinox and Tankor fighting for control of the former's spark. Which than runs into the continuity issue that the same thing never happens with Silverbolt and Waspinator when they're freed from Jetstorm and Thrust's programs. It's a bit of a mess.

Edited by datspidergirl on Nov 7th 2025 at 9:32:24 AM

Oh. It's testosterone time!
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#10039: Nov 7th 2025 at 10:16:27 AM

At the very least, I've come to be a more understanding of it's flaws considering it's now known that it's worst issues are because it's crew was basically forbidden from engaging with any prior Transformers work by a dipshit executive who felt that Beast Wars was "too continuity-heavy" and that Beast Machines should have no real ties or restrictions relatingnto prior series. Leaving said crew basically trying to do a sequel while having basically no understanding of what they were making a sequel to and compensating by crafting together whatever they could using their own original ideas and what bits lore of made it through the corporate fog. Considering those circumstances and others, it's downright impressive Beast Machines is as well-made as it is.

Said executive was the infamous Dan Di Dio prior to the horrors he unleashed on DC Comics when he took power there. Talk about eerie foreshadowing.

I don't think that's that weird a decision as you make it sound, especially given the time period. At the time, Hasbro, who was ordering the show, cared about selling toys to kids. Older fans didn't even register in their radar. That's the target audience. Beast Wars, while good, referenced a show that was over a decade old. Alot of the BW's target Audience had never seen it.

Not wanting BM to reference BW makes absolute sense from a business stand point.

BM's issue is its not committing to it. It's not being a fresh new show, but it's also not being a proper sequel. It's trying to have its cake and eat it too. Which leads to the weird experience the show leads to.

Now, again, to their defense, this is before Car Robots, before the Unicron Trilogy, before we could have new shows with characters that have the same name and looks but live in their own continuity. I think if it had occurred to them do that - to just have the cast have the name of BW characters, but be their own unique versions, they'd have done that. Were Beast Machines done in 2020, they'd have done that.

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