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The Dark Knight Rises (no spoilers)

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#76: Oct 28th 2010 at 11:46:47 AM

When he says the Penguin is too unrealistic, he might be thinking of the cartoony "Birdlike criminal who floats with an umbrella that is also a gun," interpretation. Or the half-man half-bird of Returns.

But even then, I fail to see how the Penguin is, in any way, shape, or form, less realistic than Ra's Al Ghul, Scarecrow, or the Joker as any of the three are classically depicted. It wouldn't be too hard to "real" him up.

Why, is the question. More important than, "Who is the villain going to be?" is "What is the story going to be?" and the villain needs to be chosen that suits that. "Batman fights the mob," probably isn't going to be the entirety of the plot, so just "Mob boss" isn't going to cut it.

edited 28th Oct '10 11:47:18 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#77: Oct 28th 2010 at 11:59:57 AM

^ The question of story is why I suggested Rupert Thorne way back - a corrupt politician, molding Gotham's fragile social and political mindset after the events of the Dark Knight, and using his position to set the public even further against Batman and even Bruce Wayne, would make a perfect opposer to Batman's trials this time.

Especially if working with someone like Hugo Strange, who would be perfect - with the whole Batman situation reaching it's head in TDK, someone like Strange, obsessed with Bats, with testing him and inevitably wanting to destroy and be him, would be perfect - especially given his criminal mastermind abilities and relative control over Arkham's crazies (giving him access to nearly any potential supervillains Nolan wants to use).

Thorne hiring Strange to get inside Bats' head and use that knowledge to drive him and the public farther away from each other, using other supervillains all the while to do this, would work.

Thorne works best, but Strange still does work kinda as a secondary villain, especially if his obsession with Bats goes the way people were assuming Riddler's would.

collex Since: Jan, 2010
#78: Oct 28th 2010 at 12:30:16 PM

[up]Strange is an interesting prospect. He's obcure, but no more than Ra's Al Ghul. As long as they use his comic-book design (which would fit an actor like John Malkovich or Ben Kingsley) rather than it's mad scientist look BTAS or his fat slob interpretation from The Batman.

I don't know the other villain you're talking about, but any corrupt politician or mob boss would do. Maybe they could re-use Sal Maroni? I liked him.

My problem with Black Mask is that, visually, he looks almost the same as Red Skull, Captain America's arch-nemesis who'll get a live-action version next year. So there is the danger that the viewers decries him as a red skull knock-off.

Bowyn Sshh! Be vewy vewy quiet from Canada Since: Jun, 2010
Sshh! Be vewy vewy quiet
#79: Oct 28th 2010 at 12:31:36 PM

[up]But.....but Black Mask is so much more awesome.....sad

You're probably right though....

There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
melloncollie Since: Feb, 2012
#80: Oct 28th 2010 at 12:57:20 PM

Wait, Zsasz already appeared? I must not have been watching carefully...

How likely is it that the villain will be a Canon Foreigner? [lol]

LizardBite Shameless Self-Promoter from Two Galaxies Over Since: Jan, 2001
#81: Oct 28th 2010 at 1:16:56 PM

[up] In Batman Begins, the court case that introduces Crane is over a hitman named Victor Zsaz. Later, when the Arkham patients are all let loose, you can see him leading some around, and when he turns around, you can clearly some tally marks on the back of his neck. So, yeah. He was a cameo.

edited 28th Oct '10 1:17:41 PM by LizardBite

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#82: Oct 28th 2010 at 1:20:44 PM

The question of story is why I suggested Rupert Thorne way back - a corrupt politician, molding Gotham's fragile social and political mindset after the events of the Dark Knight, and using his position to set the public even further against Batman and even Bruce Wayne, would make a perfect opposer to Batman's trials this time.

Especially if working with someone like Hugo Strange, who would be perfect - with the whole Batman situation reaching it's head in TDK, someone like Strange, obsessed with Bats, with testing him and inevitably wanting to destroy and be him, would be perfect - especially given his criminal mastermind abilities and relative control over Arkham's crazies (giving him access to nearly any potential supervillains Nolan wants to use).

Thorne hiring Strange to get inside Bats' head and use that knowledge to drive him and the public farther away from each other, using other supervillains all the while to do this, would work.

Thorne works best, but Strange still does work kinda as a secondary villain, especially if his obsession with Bats goes the way people were assuming Riddler's would.

That would be an excellent premise for a television series, introducing a new supervillain each episode. I think it might a bit too ambitious for a single movie, though.

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Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
Idler20 Rabbit Season Since: Oct, 2010
Rabbit Season
#84: Oct 28th 2010 at 4:18:19 PM

Maybe by "the Penguin is too unrealistic", what Nolan actually meant is that he's too silly. Yes, he's down-to-earth in terms of having no actual superpowers and not relying on ridiculous technology or gimmicks for his crimes, but his appearance is kind of daft and he's named after one of the most famously cute and lovable animals ever. That's not to say he can't be done well, of course, but I can see why Nolan would have his aversions.

You're an ad hominem attack!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#85: Oct 28th 2010 at 4:36:52 PM

^ That makes a little sense, especially if he was thinking of the movie version. But comics Penguin isn't really all that goofy looking - he's short, fat, and ugly, but he wouldn't be the first mafia don to be so, or be the first to have an odd nickname.

The nickname especially could be explained as something his enemies call him... but nobody dares say to his face. It, of course, ends up plastered all over the media. This ends well.

I don't know the other villain you're talking about, but any corrupt politician or mob boss would do. Maybe they could re-use Sal Maroni? I liked him.

Rupert Thorne. Probably thanks to Batman The Animated Series, he's one of my favorite random Batman villains, even though he hasn't really been relevant in decades.

But he fits perfectly into the corrupt politician taking advantage of Gotham's fragile state niche.

I also really like the way they did Maroni, but, given the source material, I'm guessing he's dead as a doornail.

edited 28th Oct '10 4:39:13 PM by KnownUnknown

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#86: Oct 29th 2010 at 2:11:49 AM

Penguin's plenty realistic, but he does seem pretty unthreatening.

And has Bane been Jossed? Cause I think he'd fit pretty well. If Venom is removed or shown as simply a very effective form of steroids, he'd fit in about the same spot on the realistic/fantastical as Ra's or Joker. He's a credible threat, both against Batman one-on-one and as a city threatening mastermind. In his original appearance, at least, he goes after Batman/Bruce Wayne on a personal level; since the film's going to be wrapping up a character arc for Batman, the story had better be personal in nature.

And, finally, keep in mind that it's going to be the last installment in a trilogy. That doesn't necessarily mean Batman will be killed off, crippled, or otherwise left unable to act as Batman anymore. But, if the filmmakers know what they're doing, they'll make the audience think Batman might meet his end. And if that's the case, using the villain who crippled Batman (temporarily) might be a good idea.

OldManHoOh It's super effective. from England Since: Jul, 2010
It's super effective.
#87: Oct 29th 2010 at 7:09:14 AM

I think in Batman Beyond, Venom was steroids.

collex Since: Jan, 2010
#88: Oct 29th 2010 at 7:51:00 AM

I always thought Venom was some kind of steroids. fantastic, exagerrated steroids, but not more of a strech than a fear gas.

I wouldn't be agaisnt Bane. However, I hope they cast a Latino actor for the part, cause bane is a Latino (he comes from Cuba IIRC). Danny Trejo has the right build, but he 's too old and he would have to shave his mustache, and the world can,t afford to lose Trejo's mustache.

I also have a personnal suggestion to make: can we have REAL Renee Montoya this time? Preferably played by Michelle Rodriguez, cause shes her spitting image, personallity wise. Latina? Check. Like Girls? Check. Hard Drinker? Check. Recklessness? Check.

EddieValiant,Jr. Not Quite Batman from under your bed. Since: Jan, 2010
Not Quite Batman
#89: Oct 29th 2010 at 12:08:43 PM

I find myself in support of this Renee Montoya idea.

Oh, and Robin. It's time to introduce Robin.

"Religion isn't the cause of wars, it's the excuse." —Mycroft Next
collex Since: Jan, 2010
#90: Oct 29th 2010 at 12:23:11 PM

[up]Not sure about Robin really. Nolan once said that Robin is probably in a crib somewhere somewhere and that he won,t appear, but that was years ago so... A Nd really if the title is any indication, this is about Batman completing the arc of becoming Batman. So having Robin before Batman is batman would be a tad bit illogical.

Also, has anybody ever did a comic that told the origin of Robin in a believable manner? last time I know they tried, it was called ASBAR

Jumpingzombie Since: Jan, 2001
#91: Oct 29th 2010 at 1:15:03 PM

^They could maybe have an ending where Robin makes a cameo of sorts. If Batman has finished this arc, then they could have hints that Robin would soon join him. Though, that may be too sequel hooky and Nolan will probably have a more conclusive ending.

collex Since: Jan, 2010
#92: Oct 29th 2010 at 1:25:45 PM

I would prefer if they jump over Robin and went directly to an adult sidekick like Nightwing. We've already seen that their are people who tries to be like Batman, and there are probably competent people among those. Just don't bring the kid aspect in it, because it's a lot of problems and morality issues to solve. I'm not agaisnt having a legacy of sort at the end, but I prefer it's not Dick Grayson, age twelve.

I said it already, but I think a finale where Batman ON A HORSE and the Gotham Citizens for Batman (that's what they,re called right?)charging into an army of vilainous mook would be awesome.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#93: Oct 29th 2010 at 1:51:18 PM

Nightwing is nothing without his past. Just skipping to Nightwing would be an enormous cop-out.

I keep thinking the best sidekick he could have in this case would be Huntress - given the violent mob climate, especially after TDK, a person trying to get revenge for her family's mob-related killing and take down the organizations that ruined her life. Especially if Bats takes it upon himself to guide her away from revenge and towards justice.

A similar reason would work for why Holiday or Hangman might work for villains -with the fall of the Falcones, someone's out for psychotic revenge and to take down their enemies...

edited 29th Oct '10 1:52:44 PM by KnownUnknown

syvaris Since: Dec, 2009
#94: Oct 29th 2010 at 1:52:15 PM

[up][up]Yes but does that work in the Nolan verse? I don't really see a climatic battle working in these films.

I think wrapping this movie up with batman silhouetted against a spot light, basically remaking the bat symbol, would be a very fitting final shot. He would literally become a symbol for Gotham, and it mirrors the last two movies. Begins had the bat symbol being made, Knight saw it destroyed, Rises sees it re-made by the man himself.

[down]Edit addressing someone else.

edited 29th Oct '10 1:53:32 PM by syvaris

You will never love a women as much as George Lucas hates his fans.
EddieValiant,Jr. Not Quite Batman from under your bed. Since: Jan, 2010
Not Quite Batman
#96: Oct 29th 2010 at 2:47:28 PM

Robin is an essential part of the Batman mythos. I'd hate it if they left him out of this.

Although, Barbara Gordon is older than Robin and she's much too young at this point in the timeline, so Robin's absence is justified.

edited 29th Oct '10 2:47:45 PM by EddieValiant,Jr.

"Religion isn't the cause of wars, it's the excuse." —Mycroft Next
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#97: Oct 29th 2010 at 3:44:30 PM

To fit the vibe this trilogy's going for, Jason Todd might be more fitting than Dick Grayson.

collex Since: Jan, 2010
#98: Oct 29th 2010 at 3:52:27 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] I agree Nightwing is nothing without his past. didn't they should use Nightwig, I said they should use a adult sidekick like Nightwing. Huntress could fit.

Yes Robin is an essential part of the mythos, but I think a crime-fighting kid would stick out like a sore thumb in the Nolan-verse.And last time we had an adult Robin, well, you allknow what happened.

As for the cliamtic battle, I like your idea for a last shot, but I don,t see how ths being the last shot prevents an epicbattle. Remember , Rises has to one up TDK or do something entirely diferent.

edited 29th Oct '10 3:52:47 PM by collex

EddieValiant,Jr. Not Quite Batman from under your bed. Since: Jan, 2010
Not Quite Batman
#99: Oct 29th 2010 at 3:59:54 PM

[up] Then the Nolan-verse should take that broom out of its ass and lighten up a little, I say!

"Religion isn't the cause of wars, it's the excuse." —Mycroft Next
MetaFour AXTE INCAL AXTUCE MUN from A Place (Old Master)
AXTE INCAL AXTUCE MUN
#100: Oct 29th 2010 at 7:53:57 PM

Also, has anybody ever did a comic that told the origin of Robin in a believable manner?
I hear Dark Victory (the sequel to The Long Halloween, by the same author) is that, but I haven't read it myself.


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