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asterism Pluto Loves You Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Pluto Loves You
Dec 6th 2018 at 5:16:47 AM

And why was it Simon's conviction that started the Dark Age?

Instead of say, a veteran prosecutor convicted of murdering the defence lawyer who nailed him for using forged evidence. Or the guy in charge of rooting out corrupt prosecutors being the most corrupt of all. Or the chief of police blackmailing the chief prosecutor into getting guilty verdicts for him.

But no, instead it's some rookie prosecutor convicted of stabbing a scientist for relatively noble reasons.

Devil Trigger
Bluethorn Returning Assist Trophy from Smash Bros. Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Returning Assist Trophy
Dec 6th 2018 at 5:40:45 AM

The best explanation I can think of is that UR-1 was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

My novel: The Armadillo with No Heart
Kayeka World's biggest wannabe from Amsterdam Relationship Status: Brony
World's biggest wannabe
Dec 6th 2018 at 5:46:59 AM

I mean, there were a lot of shenanigans going on in the system of law since then. UR-1 just so happened to be the high-profile case around which poisonous actors calling themselves "reformers" could rally.

People say I have a problem with authority. I say that authority has a problem with me.
Hobgoblin Cool Blue Magic from Jylland Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
Cool Blue Magic
Dec 6th 2018 at 9:21:40 AM

Daryan's whole bit and the Yakuza having a lot of sway over the city.

Every argument with Shantotto will eventually become a rap battle.
DonaldthePotholer from Somewhere in (not)Miami
Dec 6th 2018 at 7:27:31 PM

Yumil: I was actually thinking about the murder of Drew and the attempt on Vera, hence the term "delayed". Zak's murder would merit locks, albeit red ones. Kristoph killed Zak because Zak fired him. That's easy to understand, even though the understanding comes in hindsight and over the course of the trial. That murder by itself doesn't suggest any deep dark secret that Kristoph is subconsciously repressing that would merit the blackies.

However, Drag's revelation, which I had also concluded, leads to another symptom. He took the Engimar case because he wanted the glory, and was even willing to forge evidence to get that victory. Furthermore, with his own brother as the Prosecutor, it shows that even blood is no deterrent for Kristoph.

We know that Kristoph is twisted; we just don't know how he got that way...

re: The Dark Age of the Law: From what I've read, thinking that People vs Enigmar "showed" that the people's "Hero" was no better than the rest,note  and People vs Blackquill "showed" that Edgeworth's efforts to root out corruption were apparently in vain.

It's not so much that things weren't bad before; there was just no hope of things getting better.

Finally, I just realized something.

Phoenix's disbarrment happens on April 19th next.

Which also happens to be... Good Friday in the Western Churches.

Draghinazzo My love, has dressed me like a clown Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
My love, has dressed me like a clown
Dec 6th 2018 at 9:34:41 PM

A bit of a tangent here:

I think it's a mistake to try and apply the rules that got assigned to Athena's black psyche-locks to Kristoph's; not that anyone here has been doing it, but I've seen people saying that Kristoph didn't know the reason behind his actions based on how they work in Dual Destinies, which is just not true. Shu Takumi wasn't involved with Dual Destinies at all, so they basically just took the concept and grafted whatever meaning they wanted onto it.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Dec 6th 2018 at 1:36:24 PM

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine. ...not really though.
Yumil mad archivist from France
mad archivist
Dec 7th 2018 at 12:30:17 AM

Yes, i was about to say just that : trying to apply the DD-black lock explanation to gavin is a clusterfuck because that explanation is obviously not what takumi had in mind.

Sure it creates a ton of questions/plot holes but none of those can have a satisfying answer.

going on a tangent here, that's one of the things I hate coming across while watching AA stuff on YouTube : theories that gavin's breakdown is the result of black locks being incorrectly broken. Aside from being solely based on a throwaway line we'll likely never see happen, gavin's locks pop when questionning the motive for the murder of Zack and nowhere else. How is this a) related to kristoph's breakdown at hand and b) something you can subconciously hide to yourself ?

I'm fairly sure gavin's black locks were meant more as something like sheer willpower or something along those lines : he perfectly knows what he's hiding, he's just determined to not say it out loud. Which would match with what AJ showed of him.

As for why he's such an asshole, to me it's no different from asking why/how did matt engarde become an asshole. Might be an interesting premise for the story, but no one at capcom had any interest in writing it or making it a plot point in AJ, and the black locks weren't meant to mean otherwise.

Edited by Yumil on Dec 7th 2018 at 4:40:18 PM

Draghinazzo My love, has dressed me like a clown Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
My love, has dressed me like a clown
Dec 7th 2018 at 8:57:25 AM

Yeah, the meaning of the black psyche-lockes in AJ is pretty self-evident, i.e Kristoph is so vain and petty that he will never admit to his crimes. You don't break them in-game because you were never going to be able to. In fact that's exactly why Kristoph is one of my favorite villains in the series; they created a variation of a game mechanic entirely to prove a point, and it conveys something about Kristoph that would be impossible with just the writing alone. That's why many AJ players find them so unsettling and cite it as one of the more memorable parts of the game, the fact that they don't go in-depth as to their meaning only makes them more effective.

The explanations the game gives are also more than sufficient to understand Kristoph's motivations, he is a supreme narcissist who felt personally insulted by Zak and resented Phoenix for being picked over him, that's really it. He even said that Zak deserved to die for that "mistake". Because of the subtler writing in AJ it's possible to read into him more and that's great, but what the game offers explains his behavior pretty adequately.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Dec 7th 2018 at 1:01:29 PM

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine. ...not really though.
DonaldthePotholer from Somewhere in (not)Miami
Dec 7th 2018 at 5:32:36 PM

So, in other words, the use of the Black Locks in 5 s a Series Continuity Error and/or Kristoph should have just had red locks that Phoenix didn't have the toolsnote  to break. I believe that Phoenix could have gotten at a few of the locks, but wouldn't have broken Kristoph's motive because he would be looking for something deeper than It's All About Me.

5 should have played the Seven Deadly Sins card, expressing Athena as having fallen into Despair; at least then, Kristoph's blackies would have been explained by him being consumed by Pride or perhaps Vanity.

Yumil mad archivist from France
mad archivist
Dec 7th 2018 at 5:40:59 PM

I mean, despair isn't a sin soooooo not sure what you're going for ?

[up][up]I kinda agree but at the same time the fact he's doing all of this because he's that petty is also why I can't see krsitoph as anything else than a brat. But yeah, that's a pretty good explanation.

I'm not sure about what DD should have done. On the one hand, it definitely is a series continuity error, it's fairly clear. On the other hand, the resolution is one of my favorites moments in all of AA sooooooooooooo I don't actually wish they change it ? I guess they could build it up a different way. And that black lock breaking could have been kept for a more appropriate situation to feel even more awesome. I dunno.

TommyFresh Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Dec 8th 2018 at 5:36:17 AM

[up] Despair was actually considered one of the Seven Deadly Sins before being replaced by Sloth.

Anomalocaris20 Your tears are delicious from Sagittarius A* Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
Your tears are delicious
Dec 8th 2018 at 8:16:24 AM

I was under the impression that Despair is an aspect of Sloth.

The fact that the world exists means nobody has had a TRUE 'everything bagel' yet. Twitch
SpookyMask Insert title from Corner in round room Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Insert title
Dec 8th 2018 at 9:49:56 AM

lel. So anime original train case is the previously declared guilty guy forcing retrial across his own train (he escaped from death sentence just to do that). That is suitably over the top for the series [lol]

Time to change the style, for now
Draghinazzo My love, has dressed me like a clown Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
My love, has dressed me like a clown
Dec 8th 2018 at 9:57:20 AM

They could have made Athena's Psyche-lockes a different color. Problem solved.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine. ...not really though.
Weirdguy149 The most dangerous salesman from Sega Headquarters Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
The most dangerous salesman
Dec 8th 2018 at 10:01:05 AM

I think gray would have worked much better.