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Fallout Series: Because Arguing Never Changes

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Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#1851: Apr 3rd 2024 at 8:42:39 PM

Personally I can see an argument for killing Mr. House. I don't think he deserves to die, but he is an autocrat trying to expand his grip on The Mojave in a rather sketchy power play.

He's kind of put himself into a position where the only way for the people of the Mojave to have freedom, either by the NCR or through a benevolent Yes-Man, is to kill him. So, my attitude is "Sorry, Mr. House. Nothing personal, in fact I kind of like what you've done with the place. But alas, you fucked with democracy"

Leviticus 19:34
Luisdalas Since: Sep, 2023
#1852: Apr 3rd 2024 at 8:52:02 PM

Two of the most controversial actions of House tend to be destroying the brotherhood and the Kings.

Depending on the person, destroying the brotherhood bunker is seen as a cruel act, a necessary evil because of how dangerous they are, or they are outright Asshole Victims.

The Kings Incident is considered a potential Moral Event Horizon.

KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#1853: Apr 3rd 2024 at 9:04:00 PM

At least House was given a clean and painless death in comparison to Caesar, Benny and Ulysses.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
Luisdalas Since: Sep, 2023
#1854: Apr 3rd 2024 at 9:12:56 PM

[up]*3.Like many things, the Courier's potential motivation to seize power usually depends on your karma.

With good karma it is mentioned that the Courier managed to "end the tyranny of Mr. House", which indicates that the Courier saw him as a tyrant to be stopped.

With Neutral Karma, the narrator only mentions that he got "House out of the way", so we can assume that the Courier simply became a new House.

With Bad Karma, the Courier is even worse than Mr. House, since it was mentioned that the Courier only did it so there would be Chaos in the Mojave.

Edited by Luisdalas on Apr 3rd 2024 at 9:16:03 AM

KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#1855: Apr 3rd 2024 at 9:18:23 PM

Well for Caesar, I launched a Fat Boy at him the instant the inside of his command tent finished loading.

For Ulysses, I headshotted him before he could deliver his final speech in the silo (been waiting to do that to a Chris Avellone villain since Kreia in KOTOR 2).

For Benny, I beat him to death w/ my bare hands. I also ate his remains since I played a Good Karma cannibal.

Edited by KRider on Apr 3rd 2024 at 9:19:15 AM

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
Luisdalas Since: Sep, 2023
#1856: Apr 3rd 2024 at 9:28:15 PM

But as I said in my deleted message, they are all optional.

  • You can leave Cesar alone so that he dies from his tumor or killed by Securitrons.
  • you can kill Benny in the hotel, or go as far as saving his life.
  • You can kill Ulysses, or form an alliance with him to defeat the marked men.

House is the only one that is mandatory on most routes.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#1857: Apr 3rd 2024 at 9:35:19 PM

Of all the things I could morally object against House, like his treatment of the poor, making a group based on the MAFIA for the purposes of nostalgia, or that gambling vault, I'd say democracy is the least of my concerns personally.

In a place like the wasteland, the most important factor to me is a leader who can provide stability and food while not being a dictator like Caesar.

He's also upfront about being an autocrat and that he really has no interest in controlling what people do. Just as long as you provide your fees, he'll leave you alone and enjoy New Vegas.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#1858: Apr 3rd 2024 at 9:47:45 PM

[up][up]I know they're optional. I'm just saying that even though my Courier ultimately opposed House, I at least gave him the dignity of a clean death.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#1859: Apr 4th 2024 at 5:16:36 AM

I personally wish we had the option of recruiting the Kings to House's ranks.

Mind you, they're a bunch of anarchists and House actually knows what they're parodying.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#1860: Apr 4th 2024 at 6:40:12 AM

Caesar<Independent<House<NCR<<<<<Kings

[down]I think, as Independent is dependent entirely on the Courier's morality, it is the one which varies the most morally from playthrough to playthrough. However, it does seem that a lot of the Independent Epilogue slides seem the same or even slightly worse than House and NCR, though natuarally if you do lots of side quests and reach the best outcomes then you can get a pretty good independent ending. I suppose the independent ending, other than what the epilogue describes, is also the most ambiguous because it's our character calling the shots so it's our idea what their long-term plan will be.

Edited by king15 on Apr 4th 2024 at 6:43:51 PM

Luisdalas Since: Sep, 2023
#1861: Apr 4th 2024 at 11:36:23 AM

The independent (With Securitrons) is too ambiguous to know if he is worse or better than House.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#1862: Apr 4th 2024 at 5:53:20 PM

The independent (With Securitrons) is too ambiguous to know if he is worse or better than House.

I think it strongly implies that the Courier is able to take over New Vegas but not the entirety of the Mojave. Certainly, no one else seems to recognize their authority even if they manage to do a hundred other good deeds. This is compared to House who takes over the entire region.

But if your goal is independence, that's not a bad thing.

While possessed of no special insights, Ulysses also suggests that Independence is the best ending for the Mojave overall as not only does Ulysses stay to stop the Tunnelers from killing all life in the Mojave but it allows a clean break with the past to start anew.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Apr 4th 2024 at 5:55:05 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Luisdalas Since: Sep, 2023
#1863: Apr 5th 2024 at 2:55:58 PM

[up]It is also the fact that if you do not deal with hostile factions, they will spread terror throughout the Mojave. (which contrasts with the other endings, in which the faction that won, usually takes care of them)


Returning to Fallout 3, something that I find annoying about the Playable Epilogue DLC, is that some of the new enemies base their difficulty on being bullet sponges and the reward for killing them is usually minimal.

You spent ammo from your best weapon, used your psycho, your buffout, and other things to defeat a Ghoul Reaver, and when you check its body there is only one Jet or 5 caps.

Edited by Luisdalas on Apr 5th 2024 at 2:57:01 AM

amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#1864: Apr 5th 2024 at 3:13:00 PM

To be fair, giving a substantially greater reward would seriously unbalance the game in favor of stealth characters exploding the opposition's pants.

ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#1865: Apr 5th 2024 at 4:30:38 PM

Honestly a significant problem with Fallout and similar games is that you have the "Spend twenty bullets, get fifty bullets as a reward" problem so your inventory just snowballs in general. Having some tough bullet spongy enemies skittering around isn't a bad idea at all IMHO.

You are not alone.
Luisdalas Since: Sep, 2023
#1866: Apr 5th 2024 at 4:57:05 PM

Good point, although I would still like the Reavers to give a minimally better reward.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#1867: Apr 7th 2024 at 6:00:43 PM

That is a good point. Maybe a toggle? I doubt it would be too much work to make it so you have the option to make reputation visible or not.

Yeah, a toggle seems like a good compromise. Not sure if it would be easy or practical to implement but it would be the ideal solution.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#1868: Apr 8th 2024 at 4:31:50 AM

clearly we need is a jiminy cricket type figure who happens to be the vault boy..

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#1869: Apr 8th 2024 at 6:03:38 AM

So a conscience that abandons you at the first hint of trouble and doesn't really know anything about how to actually parent someone onto the right path? grin

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#1870: Apr 8th 2024 at 6:06:03 AM

yup!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#1871: Apr 8th 2024 at 12:14:13 PM

[up][up][up] You joke, but putting such a thing as some sort of digital assistant on your Pip-Boy could be pretty great. Especially if it has the same horribly warped morality of Vault-Tec.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#1872: Apr 8th 2024 at 12:27:40 PM

Shit, that would be the perfect explanation for a screwed-up Black-and-White Morality karma system.

"You killed slavers! Yay! Have positive karma! But you stole their spoons! Boo! Negative karma!"

You'd still need some actual benefit to the system, though. Like a lot of extra perks to buy or something.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Luisdalas Since: Sep, 2023
#1873: Apr 8th 2024 at 12:33:41 PM

Although I can imagine the predicament that Jiminy Cricket would have about kidnapping a baby to save some slaves.

or if it is more merciful to kill House or leave him disabled.

Even better, Jiminy Cricket's reaction if you decide to launch both nukes.

  • Jiminy Cricket: You are an irredeemable monster.
  • Very Bad Karma Courier: What Took You So Long, Idiot?

Edited by Luisdalas on Apr 8th 2024 at 12:37:23 PM

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#1874: Apr 8th 2024 at 2:52:07 PM

I know when I first played Fallout 3 I based my character's personality on the idea that they kind of bought into the Vault-Tec propaganda, or at least the general tone of it. Not in a sinister way, but more with an attitude of cheerful enthusiasm to put the Vault-Tec training to use.

Leviticus 19:34
Luisdalas Since: Sep, 2023
#1875: Apr 8th 2024 at 3:02:44 PM

I based my first Courier on being a consummate professional, so I followed House's route, since he is technically my original client.


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