The end goal can be good but the person who does it doesn't have to be. Since Yhwach is doing it out of selfishness as much as he believes its better for everyone.
Course in the end neither world is ideal. Thoufh the original gets more elaborated in the novels.
Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.I am annoyed that the backstory for Bleach presents some rich powerful assholes murdering and betraying and upending the order of the world but now that they’ve done that and the status quo serves their needs the only people who have a problem with it and want to change it are supreme puppy kickers
No reasonable non puppy kicking alternative is set up or humored. The heroes help prop up a corrupt society because the alternative is shrug too hard to think about besides those dissidents are dicks!
Is there not a third option? Witches perhaps?
Forever liveblogging the Avengers
x6 The novels imply that Kazui may pave the way for a solution. It was said in either ten or hundred years, Squad Zero will face judgement for what they did (regarding the Soul King). Ten years is the epilogue of course.
@Lightysnake
Ukitake and Shunsui were part of the Quincy massacre, that killed so many Quincy that they believed the race was extinct. Infanticide was committed there. None of the Shinigami ever stopped Mayuri or the tradition of the Kenpachi. They likewise tolerated things like the Hollow pits for several centuries or did nothing for the Rukongai. Not to mention, the Shinigami are responsible that people have to live in poverty in the afterlife and that Hollows exist. Shunsui also tolerates the existence of the Soul King.
Both sides have committed equal crimes. Neither is better. Yhwach's plans would have gotten rid of all the bad things about Soul Society. He does it for selfish reasons, but that doesn't change that he would have improved things. Aizen's only objection was that Yhwach's world would be too perfect for humanity and that imperfection is better.
Liltotto risked being slowed down by grabbing Giselle. Considering that the lights are fast enough to travel from the Royal Realm to the Seretei in an instant, that was a huge risk. As for that matter, they left Bambietta alone, because they didn't think she would lose. Liltotto didn't prevent the zombification because the alternative was that Bambietta would have been executed. There were only two options. Letting Bambietta live so that she will be executed by Yhwach or transforming her into a zombie so that she can still live in some form. And Bambietta fears death above everything, so long term the later is what she prefers. Genuine question. What do you think, should Liltotto have done?
Edited by bandersnitch on Nov 28th 2018 at 2:22:38 AM
The dialogue in Burn the Witch does indeed suggest Soul Society murdered all the Eastern dragons.
Hollows are a specific subtype much like Quincy are to witches since Dragons covers actual dragons and other mythical creatures.
Edited by OmegaRadiance on Nov 28th 2018 at 2:53:47 AM
Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.I wonder if dragons are part of the animal realm. There probably has to be more than just Komamura's family.
Maybe Lille became a dragon with his last transformation? He certainly gained some draconic features. If that were true, one would have a possible explanation, where they came from. Maybe they were refugees from the old world.
Giselle does not give a shit about Bambietta. She doesn't care that Bambietta fears death considering how she beats her into concrete and demanding her blood back when Bambietta is worried that taking too much blood would kill her, then proceed to get excited towards her looking dead. Gisele has zero good intentions when she revived Bambietta beyond satisfying her own lust. Just because Bambietta doesn't want to die means that Giselle is a good person, nor is she complex. She wants to abuse and get off on seeing Bambietta being subservient and in fear, as she clearly shows.
Also, you keep mentioning that Bambietta as some desperate coward that would take any alternative to death, when in the manga she only looked pissed by being defeated and does not show fear of death that is stronger than any normal person while ignoring how Bambietta protests this. This is something added afterwards and is abuse apologia at its finest with saying this is ultimately good for her, that because the abuser did something good for him/her it makes the abuser not completely an asshole, despite the fact that the latter directly benefits from it.
Ukitake and Shunsui were part of the Quincy massacre, that killed so many Quincy that they believed the race was extinct. Infanticide was committed there. None of the Shinigami ever stopped Mayuri or the tradition of the Kenpachi. They likewise tolerated things like the Hollow pits for several centuries or did nothing for the Rukongai. Not to mention, the Shinigami are responsible that people have to live in poverty in the afterlife and that Hollows exist. Shunsui also tolerates the existence of the Soul King.
And people in Naruto served the ninja system, people in One Piece fight for the military. The problem is not that Soul Society is evil, it is that you continuously try gin paint yhwach as a saintly hero whose evil deeds don't exist. Yes, e know SS is an imperfect Bureaucracy. The Vandenreich is evil to a one.
No, he wouldn't have. He absolutely wouldn't have. It'd be an imperfect stagnation and that only assumes Yhwahc wouldn't be reigning it like a god, which he's pathologically incapable of not doing. SS's characters has taken a stand for innocent people before. Yhwach keeps murdering them.
Let her die with dignity as opposed to being Giselle's abused slave? Again, why are you ignoring what Giselle does to and how she treats Bambietta? Does Liltoto make a word of complaint? No, she doesn't.
And again, what you argue with Bambi is verging, constantly, into serious abuse apologia. Your argument seems to be constantly trying to find a way to make it okay and refuses to even address or acknowledge the points against it.
Edited by Lightysnake on Nov 28th 2018 at 3:08:53 AM
Giselle's first instinct after the Auswahlen was to go to Bambietta and ensure to her, that neither would die. Bambietta also mentioned that the reason she fights in the war is because she wants to avoid death. She was extremely disturbed when Komamura cast away his own life and had a breakdown because of that. Fear of death is a major theme with the Quincy, the final arc and why Bleach exists in the first place. Bambietta is simply another aspect of that and shows how far they are willing to go to avoid death. It is a case of Deliberate Values Dissonance here. From our perspective it may be worse, but from theirs being a zombie is better than death.
Giselle's first instinct after the Auswahlen was to go to Bambietta and ensure to her, that neither would die. Bambietta also mentioned that the reason she fights in the war is because she wants to avoid death. She was extremely disturbed when Komamura cast away his own life and had a breakdown because of that. Fear of death is a major theme with the Quincy, the final arc and why Bleach exists in the first place. Bambietta is simply another aspect of that and shows how far they are willing to go to avoid death. It is a case of Deliberate Values Dissonance here. From our perspective it may be worse, but from theirs being a zombie is better than death.
This is really starting to get skeevy:
She turns Bambietta into an undead slave as Bambietta begs her NOT TO and then abuses her horribly. Enough with this "but it's really okay because Bambi is scared of death" thing
Zombifying, an act that forces her to rely only on Giselle to survive and forcibly addicted her blood, and something Giselle only did to get herself a meat puppet. Yeah thats totally a good thing. If I force a woman in debt to marry me so I would pay off her debt, than abuse her like shit because I'm a sadistic asshole, the act of making her marry me is totally okay if we ignore the abuse half, even though I would be doing it solely for the sake of getting someone to abuse.
No, Bambietta sees it as worse after she'd been turned into a zombie with questionable free will who is forcibly addicted to a sadistic prick who regularly abuses her.
What's next? "This character bought a wife as a slave and treat her horribly, but she'd die on the streets if he threw her out, so this is preferable?" The relationship is not complex. It's classical abuse. It's hard to justify this or how Shunsui's thing with Nanao turned out.
Edited by Lightysnake on Nov 28th 2018 at 3:38:28 AM
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I am not a fan of Black and White views. I am aware that what happened to Bambietta is horrible and that Giselle is abusive. I am also aware that the situation is more complex because a number of factors are at play. This is not just 100% black and 100% white.
A dissonance of values is involved, which gets completely ignored. I am not a fan of when things get reduced to a simplistic view. Characters in fiction and in real life have different views over things and I don't believe that there is no merit in other views and ideals, not matter how much you disagree with that.
Which, if I'm frank - and I apologize if this comes as insulting, that is not my intention - is exactly what Lightysnake did. Not just with this topic, there were several others too. He disagree with something and refuses to believe that there may actually be some merit to other side. And also ignores whenever other shades are shown. As I stated that is something I do not believe at all. Anything, no matter how removed from your own value system it is, may have some merit to it.
I apologize for being off-topic here and if it was indeed insulting, again that was not my intention.
Edited by bandersnitch on Nov 28th 2018 at 3:39:43 AM
A dissonance of values is involved, which gets completely ignored. I am not a fan that things get reduced to a simplistic view. Characters in fiction and in real life have different views over things and I don't believe that there is no merit in other views and ideals, not matter how much you disagree with that.
Which, if I'm frank - and I apologize if this comes as insulting, that is not my intention - is exactly what Lightysnake did. Not just with this topic, there were several others too. He disagree with something and refuses to believe that there may actually be some merit to other side. As I stated that is something I do not believe at all. Anything, no matter how removed from your own value system it is, may have some merit to it.
I apologize for being off-topic here and if it was indeed insulting, that was not my intention.
You are absolutely correct I refus eto believe there is 'merit' to someone treating their domestic partner like a literal punching bag. An attempt to fin shades of gray in everything can result in the Golden Mean fallacy. Not everything can or should be reduced to "there's merit in every side."
The problem is when you throw the 'but' in there. It's just "no, stop right there. What happened to Bambi is abusive and Giselle is horrible." Full stop. More than that, when you begin discussing "but it's more complex than that"...you are justifying domestic abuse.

In case you have forgotten, Shunsui and Ukitake have both committed genocide in the past. You really think the Quincy poplations they had slaughtered didn't involve children?
There is zero confirmation Shunsui and Ukitake have ever killed children and given Ukitake refused to fight something that looked like a child (Lilynette)...
And did absolutely nothing to stop him while their supreme god was fine having Pepe as part of the team. These moral standards are looking kinda hollow.
Why do you insist on divorcing Yhwach's intense selfishness from his goals? He gloats how he'll bring 'ruin' to the human world, kills his own children the second they stop being useful to him, glefully murders others for not being pure enough for him...Soul Society is easily the lighter shade of black to him.
What 'risk' did she take for her, exactly? She tackled her away from a beam of light? And Liltoto stood by, doing nothing to help her 'friend' Bambietta as she screamed and begged Giselle not to kill her...and before that, Liltoto had their group, survey says...abandon Bambietta in a fight just for kicks. Yeah, she's a REAL team player right there.
Your insistence on "Look, Bambietta was murdered and turned into an abused addict is a good thing for her, really" is a vvery, very questionable argument.
And Giselle saying something darkly ominous hardly seems to be proof of a deep care between comrades. Liltoto did not look remotely concerned for Bambi there. '
At this point the worst one can say for the Gotei 13 is they're led by an incestuous serial sexual harasser and are in dire need of an HR department.
You insist on portraying Yhwach as a good guy while ignoring all the unnecessary cruelty he was responsible for. Just ask Luders and Ibern
Edited by Lightysnake on Nov 28th 2018 at 1:30:14 AM