I was more talking about moving it to the Shout-Out Name Space when we move things to the trivia space.
Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!I just noticed that Fan Nickname has a YMMV banner. Personally, I think it's more trivia than audience reaction or subjective.
edited 30th Jan '11 8:53:09 AM by ccoa
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.Fan Nickname would be Audience Reaction. It's not about the work, it's about the fans of the work.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.It's not really an Audience Reaction in the conventional sense, though, the way Narm and Tear Jerker are.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.If we have Word of God, Word of Dante, Flip-Flop of God and Shrug of God, I think we should have Lying Creator (Word of God that is bogus) and God Never Said That (mistakenly attributed Word of God) on the list too.
edited 31st Jan '11 9:26:52 AM by Tyoria
Fan Nickname works as Trivia, since it's a lot less objectionable than most Audience Reactions. For certain minor unnamed characters or objects using the Fan Nickname is probably more productive than trying to describe who or what you're talking about. Provided of course you pothole it, so people don't think it's an official name.
Regulated fun - the best kind! I don't make the rules, just enforce them with an iron fist.Speaking of tropes that are more trivia than subjective, what about Genius Bonus?
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.Here's some more real life stuff for your consideration: Creator Backlash, Old Shame, So My Kids Can Watch, Bleached Underpants, Playing Against Type, Controversy-Proof Image, Contractual Purity. I think we also have something for career-ending off screen shenanigans, can anyone remember what it's called?
edited 1st Feb '11 9:33:08 AM by Killomatic
Regulated fun - the best kind! I don't make the rules, just enforce them with an iron fist.A few thoughts:
- Jossed (currently +8 in favor of trivia) is Audience Reaction, not Trivia. It's about Fanon being overturned by events in the work. That's a fan-reaction thing, not a behind-the-scenes-random-fact thing.
- Hide Your Pregnancy (currently +0 with 10 votes) is definitely Trivia, because it's the behind the scenes production reason for why something happened (as opposed to an in-universe or Narrative Causality reason).
- Fountain of Memes (currently +0 with 8 votes) is Audience Reaction, because it's about memes, which are a fandom thing.
- Expy (currently -1) is trivia because it's "this character was based on this other character" — a behind-the-scenes fact, not an objective in-work thing or a "this is what the fans think about it" thing.
- Dawson Casting (currently -2) is trivia, because it's about the actors rather than the characters.
What about Word of Gay? I hesitate to automatically shove it in next to Word of God because its one of those things where after you learn it, you see the story in a while different light.
edited 1st Feb '11 11:51:50 AM by Elle
![]()
Everything that can fall under Real Life Writes the Plot should probably not be in trivia.
There's a definite overlap between Trivia and Audience Reaction in some cases, which I've tried to address with little success. Audience Reaction, suggests everything fandom related, but the real reason that class was defined, was because of the YMMV problems. There are some things in there that are more or less objective, just not story elements. We really have to decide once and for all if we are going to call them Audience Reactions or Trivia.
edited 1st Feb '11 11:53:00 AM by Killomatic
Regulated fun - the best kind! I don't make the rules, just enforce them with an iron fist.
Why not? Real Life Writes the Plot and subtropes are exactly what should be Trivia. "Factoids that occur during or around the production of a work but are not elements written to tell the story." "The Plot" is the Tropes, "Real Life Writes the Plot" is the Trivia.
Diagonalizing The Matrix
Not everything that has to do with fandom in some way is an Audience Reaction. Word of God, for one, is definitely not an Audience Reaction.
Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to![]()
The definition of trivia given on the page itself isn't "things that have behind-the-scenes reasons"; it's "things that aren't related to storytelling".
Also, this is a better distinction to make. Putting everything from Real Life Writes the Plot on Trivia by definition means removing information about the plot from the main page. Trivia should be for pages where Real Life Does Not Write The Plot.
edited 1st Feb '11 12:18:44 PM by Micah
132 is the rudest number.![]()
Sure; Word of God is definitely Trivia. Audience Reactions has to be something about what the fandom thinks or does, and "the creator of the work said this" definitely doesn't apply.
No, The Plot is the tropes, and they would go on the main page. Real Life Writes the Plot is not about the story, it's about why the story is the way it is. The example given elsewhere was Hide Your Pregnancy. If a character in an action series temporarily becomes a Desk Jockey because the actress is pregnant, then the story is "Character becomes a Desk Jockey", so that would go on the main page, but "Character became a Desk Jockey because Actress was pregnant" is trivia (it's not directly about the plot), so Hide Your Pregnancy goes under Trivia.
edited 1st Feb '11 12:24:39 PM by NativeJovian
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.I know what What Goes Where on the Wiki says, I wrote that myself after all (well copied from another post, at least). Note that it also says "casting choices not relevant to the story", which should be a clue that no clear cut definition is perfect. That page is constantly getting tweaked anyway, so don't consider it a final call by any means.
Regulated fun - the best kind! I don't make the rules, just enforce them with an iron fist.![]()
The problem with that is that a lot of these (including both Dawson Casting and Hide Your Pregnancy) often have a constellation of effects, none of which would necessarily be interesting on their own but whose combination is.
That is, "character becomes a Desk Jockey for a season" is interesting. "Character becomes a Desk Jockey for an episode" probably isn't, but "character dresses in black for one episode, wears a really baggy overcoat in the next episode, spends the next episode walking around holding a briefcase in front of her stomach, becomes a Desk Jockey for the episode after that, runs away and is only seen by vidphone (which only shows her head and upper body) for the episode after that, disappears entirely for the episode after that, and then returns as normal" is. Except that if we tried to catalogue all the possible permutations of that, we'd hit Combinatorial Explosion territory, so it makes more sense to just lump it all as Hide Your Pregnancy.
edited 1st Feb '11 12:47:59 PM by Micah
132 is the rudest number.Keep Circulating the Tapes has been added to the crowner.
Regulated fun - the best kind! I don't make the rules, just enforce them with an iron fist.What about Role Association? Considering that's just for fun really, and it's not definetly a YMMV thing(e.g. if someone thinks of Alice as being in X show, and another person thinks Y, they are both correct because it is a fact she was in both shows).
We have a Just for Fun index and banner, don't we?
Regulated fun - the best kind! I don't make the rules, just enforce them with an iron fist.
Crown Description:
The Trivia category is for narrative conventions that cannot be determined from the final product itself. These are details of production and behind-the-scenes events that influenced the end result of the product. This crowner is used in conjunction with this thread

I don't think that's all that problematic, since Lucky Star makes the references easy to spot provided you know what's being referenced.
Regulated fun - the best kind! I don't make the rules, just enforce them with an iron fist.