Harry Potter And The Methods Of Rationality

So, just...skipping past the rage, I think Quirrel didn't release the troll. It's sloppy, imprecise, has a disturbingly high chance of killing Harry, and Harry will eventually find out who did release it and destroy them. I think he just noted that it turned out in his favor regardless.

Not seen. Quirrell's "Oh fucking hell this is going to go horribly wrong very soon" face.

Well then.

It looks like we're entering the story's Darker and Edgier phase, everybody.

Bile fascination is the only reason for now that I can think about continuing to read this. Which is tragic. I loved the whole story up to the last five or so chapters. I stuck with it through the constant rewrites, some forced by fan reaction to of all things a song, I mean, seriously folks, what the fuck were you whining about in the Sorting Hat scene and its build up? That song was funny, you humorless stop having fun guys /argh incoherent rant curtailed.

But this? It's like Chris Rock and rap music. I am tired of defending it (the story). You do not butcher a twelve year old girl off camera, or at all, and get me to applaud you.

edited 29th Jun '13 10:36:35 PM by TamH70

"Why weren't you prepared?"

i wouldn't expect the author to pull out a larger caliber so soon after Hermione supposedly trying to kill Draco

it is sad how Harry is going to be lonely after this. and also sad for Hermione, of course.

i wonder about story's future direction and the resulting conclusion. Harry now going full power for defeating and reverting death is obvious. if he succeeds, singularity / heaven on earth way, i'd be disappointed. i know this is what Yudkowski is after in his life, but i don't share his belief and i don't know, ending a story with a solution-to-everything feels bad.

if he succeeds in Ikari Gendo / not a world as we know it way, it would be surely a huge and surprising leap from the current state, but acceptable for me.

if he comes to terms with death in Dumbledore / Rowling way... hmm, he won't and i wouldn't like it anyway.

if he comes to terms with it in natural law / inevitable source of sadness way, that is my view, so no objections here.

if the story won't reach the final conclusion, leaving with Harry still in the immortality pursuit, i wouldn't mind it either. a peaceful solution.

PS: when i went to the kitchen to get myself a breakfast after reading the chapters and heard part of the morning church service from the radio, it again amazed me how the same story could be interpreted in completely different fashion depending on the interpreter's views.

edited 30th Jun '13 2:11:04 AM by SparklingDude

Would you kindly not mock my grief, norn and furi? Or I will unleash the hell of a thousand snarls in your general direction.

Um. Um. Well. Um. ...fuck.

What have you done, Yudkowsky? What have you done??

To be fair, this is still a good story, with intelligent and well thought-out consistency. But well, it's not Harry Potter. I still love the fic, but outside of the shared verse and the awesome magic, there's absolutely nothing in there from what made me like the books. Weirdly enough I am ok with that - but I really wouldn't market this as an HP fic.

Now. That prophecy...

It is Harry Potter. Just not Rowling's Harry Potter. Which used to be a good thing, and still is for the most part, but this? I don't like Puella Magicka thingamabob, I don't like the idea of it, so I never watched any of it or read the manga.

Same as I refuse point blank to watch any of Jim Cameron's post Terminator 2 films as he went too far into his own hype and/or took swipes at dead men who thus, conveniently, weren't around to defend themselves. Or re-read Stephen King's flat out worst book (and boy, did the last Dark Tower book give it some competition), Pet Sematary, as that book still makes me want to take a shower in domestos bleach around twenty years or so after I read it. I have lines that I try not to let myself cross. It may have retarded my cultural education somewhat but them's the breaks.

This story is getting that way and I hate that.

And since the next part is coming out tomorrow, on my birthday, I get a really nice present, don't I?

Fuck.

More than fifty novels, I don't know how many short stories, and you're going with Pet Sematary?

I would have given It a pass; that's at least got the transcendental underage group sex bit to deal with. But I wouldn't call Pet Sematary anywhere near the bottom of the barrel, whether we're talking about technical writing quality or taboo breaching.

edited 30th Jun '13 3:17:14 AM by Nornagest

I for one find everything I loved in HP here, just, upgraded to my perspective as an adult. The sense of wonder and discovery, the complicated relationships with teachers and classmates, the struggle between being put on a pedestal and being ostracized (and when you're an outliers, it's either one or the other), the tension about when to break the rules and when to let oneself be constrained by them, and the consequences of either, and the importance of loyal friends, and of doing what's right rather than what's easy. That's just a few things.

And here's the thing that baffled me when I found out; most people didn't actually care about any of that. They just wanted good guys, and bad guys, in an interesting setting, having an interesting struggle, where the good guys win. It would appear that, to most people, fiction is something between a car accident and a war (or a sports match); it's interesting and they've got a side they can root for, but they don't actually care. If you try to sit down and discuss the morality of this or that, the reaction is this:

It would be interesting if Harry and Ron were brought together by shared grief, Ron finally fulfilling his role as an emotional anchor to a protagonist who's now set on a path that'll have him end the world.

edited 30th Jun '13 4:46:26 AM by Karasu91

But EY sees no reason for him to exist.

Did he ever actually say that? I mean, Harry did, but Harry's eleven and kind of an idiot in that special, special way.

I think he did this on this very thread, where people called him out on not giving the kid a chance.

Huh. Forgot about that. Well, I've never been very fond of Ron myself, but I don't think he's beyond salvaging.

I find it spectacularly appropriate that a chapter that is manifestly about how death is abrupt and unfair is greeted with, "This is abrupt and unfair! How can you do this to us?"

Most of the time, in the developed world, death isn't abrupt; you can see it coming from miles away, and you can keep yourself alive for a long time, though past a point it is at the expense of resources and suffering. When a sickly grandfather dies, you don't go "too soon" and "this is unfair", you go "it was time for him to go", and perhaps even "Thank goodness, he was in such pain for the last few months! Also he was so senile it was unbearable to be around him! Also, we won't have to pay for his expensive, cumbersome, troublesome treatments anymore! And we won't have to feel guilty and awkward about all these negative feelings! What a relief!".

I find myself thinking up outlandish theories involving time turners and magical fake Hermiones or apparitions to emergency rooms for resuscitation in less than 20 minutes. So, yes, congratulations, that one hit.

RE: Ron - I thought the "there's no reason for him to exist" was what Draco had said about him, and Harry had replied "Pretty much." So how about showing that normal people can keep Harry grounded? A sort of counterpoint to his mysterious DARK SIDE (sorry, I still can't say/write that without chuckling)

And about the latest chapters - thing is, I wasn't even sure we were gonna get the troll bit, especially so late after Halloween/Harry Potter Day. And yeah, the whole random/pointless/brutal angle really hits home. Now Hermione and Draco are gone, he is sixty thousand Galleons in debt to Lucius Malfoy, and he didn't save the girl - to top it off, his last real conversation with her was not the most pleasant. Sucks to be him right now.

Forgive me for being humorless, but there's absolutely nothing funny about having a dark side.

Most of the time, in an active volcano, life is infinitesimally short. The fact you can see it coming does little to stop molten rock from killing you.

Your "developed world" statement is utterly irrelevant to the presented situation, just as irrelevant as the above. This isn't an example of "most of the time in the developed world." Neither is the sudden onset of an incurable illness, or a war, or a terrorist attack. (The last, incidentally, is what this incident most strongly resembles.) We live in a world where this sort of thing can happen, and does.

And I think I, and the author, would disagree with your main argument regardless, even were it framed more aptly. All death is exactly this painful and unfair and meaningless, and anything else we tell ourselves is a way to feel better about something we know we're a long way from changing. That's what this chapter is about. No one in full functioning order, with all physical and mental faculties and sufficient resources, wishes to cease existing. Any argument to the contrary is a rationalization.

I'm pretty sure that Hermione will end up returning *somehow*, unless Harry is bringin forth the End of the World as We Know It in a bad way.

But it's pretty unlikely that it will be a sleight of hand trick, given all the prophecies, and soul-explosions, and Determinator oaths about Breaking Reality, Hermione is not coming back as long as the fabric of the Universe is intact.

edited 30th Jun '13 11:52:55 AM by Ever9

At first I was going to say "Dumbledore would like to have a word with you, him and every Death Seeker ever", but frankly, your conditions are so ludicrously precise that I can tell you exactly how many people fit in this category you just created: no-one.

If you want a look at fiction that handles "ludicrously sudden, inevitable, horrible death, for which you are too late, that you can do nothing about no matter how hard you try", I suggest you have a look at Shingeki No Kyojin, where this kind of shit happens all the time, and you never find yourself thinking "Like You Would Really Do It"; unless you were spoiled beforehand, you will wholeheartedly believe every single death you see. And the poor bastards drop like flies, too. But see, here's the key thing: we see it from their perspective. Even the most sudden death feels right and proper.

Yet another work that handled this rather well was Bokurano, although most of the kids did get the time to make peace with their deaths and sort their stuff out.

Well, at least we have soundtrack for these two chapters:

I've been reading Attack on Titan since it was on chapter five. I'm acquainted with it.

"Ludicriously precise"? That's absurd. "No one who is 1) physically healthy, 2) mentally healthy, and 3) has the resources to continue with 1 and 2 wishes to die." And all three are a sliding scale where "wants to die" is an extreme, as demonstrated by the fact we have people who are physically ill, mentally ill, poor, or all three and still wish to live. Suicidal tendencies, active or passive (the will to die versus the lack of will to live), are considered abnormal and dangerous for a reason.

Dumbledore is a bad example. Dumbledore is an old, tired warrior traumatized by a life of conflict and pain. Dumbledore enjoys life, but he's also spent a very large portion of it in the vanguard against evil, and he's ready for it all to end. He could do with some time with a mental health professional (and perhaps an awesome new robot body).