Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Tentative on Marissa. Her nature as a Well-Intentioned Extremist seems to be a plausible interpretation of her actions, so I would support a cut unless we can confirm that her moral conflict is really just an act.

on Rat King.

Any other thoughts on Stanley from Cabin by the Lake and the Freddy vs. Jason examples? Stanley has received one upvote so far.

I went over Monster.Film, and there are issues with some Bond examples.

• Franz Sanchez from Licence to Kill can be Affably Evil and charming, but he's also uncommonly brutal and ruthless in dealing with his enemies or those he perceives as disloyal to him - he brutally whips his mistress, Lupe Lamora, with a stingray-tail whip as a punishment for infidelity. It is also implied that under his orders, his top henchman Dario removed the heart of the man she has slept with. He feeds Bond's best friend, Felix Leiter, to a shark (he had his newlywed wife raped and killed right before), and he kills one of his collaborators, locking him in a decompression chamber, believing he stole his money. Towards the climax, he also decides to start "cutting overhead" and shoots his financial advisor.

I believe it was determined pretty early on in this thread that Affably Evil (unlike Faux Affably Evil, where it's just an act) is mutally exclusive with Complete Monster as it's a redeeming trait, so he can't be both. The film page also lists him under this trope, but I doubt if his friendliness is at all genuine given how brutal he can be at other times.

Max Zorin could use a better write-up. Here's his previous entry:

• Max Zorin in A View to a Kill really qualifies big time. Besides his main plan to cause a flood that would kill many innocents by triggering an earthquake, he drops a businessman to his death when he disagrees with his plan, kills the mayor and gets Bond blamed for it, murders the subway workers in a gleeful manner, and while doing this, betrays May Day, his main henchwoman.

And a new one:

• Max Zorin from A View to a Kill is by far one of the most psychopathic and Ax-Crazy villains Bond has ever come across. A French-German Corrupt Corporate Executive who used to work for the KGB after he and his Evilutionary Biologist mentor Dr. Carl Mortner aka Hans Glaub were whisked out of the defeated Nazi Germany by the Soviets, he goes rogue to pursue his own plans for domination. His plot involves triggering an earthquake to flood Silicon Valley so his tech company can get a monopoly on the world's supply of microchips, killing millions of people in the proces. He drops a businessman to his death when he disagrees with Zorin's plan, and kills the San Francisco mayor before blaming Bond for the murder and leaving him and Stacy behind to die in a fire. He's so psychotic that he gleefully machine guns his own mine workers to death and betrays his lover and henchwoman May Day, all of whom were nothing but loyal to him. When his plan is eventually foiled he goes through a Villainous Breakdown as he tries to hack Bond and Stacy up with an ax in a fight on top of the Golden Gate Bridge.

I think I've asked this before, but would it be an idea to create a Monster/JamesBond franchise page? There are at least seven film examples and probably more from the novels.

And speaking of animated shows, it's been a very long time since I've last seen it, but would Dr. X, the Big Bad from the 2000s Action Man series qualify for this trope? Despite his Obviously Evil portrayal and that of his League of Doom, for a kid's show he's played awfully straight as an Evilutionary Biologist who only advocates genocide and enslavement, takes over someone's body through mind control and tries to kill innocents in virtually every one of his appearances. I don't think he can even be called a Well-Intentioned Extremist who believes his dream of some sort of post-human super race is ultimately for the betterment of mankind. By the final episode he's closer to an Omnicidal Maniac as he tries to annihilate all of mankind by colliding the Earth with a comet, and as a newly born cyborg neo-human he sees only himself as the pinnacle of perfection and the future of "mankind", apparently only caring about his own survival. He outranks any of his minions in evil, with one even performing a Heel–Face Turn to stop him (although for pragmatic reasons).

edited 3rd May '14 10:45:01 AM by Morgenthaler

I'd not be opposed to a Bond subpage.

Damn, so will we have to go through the Affably Evil subpages? BTW, Vandal Savage is listed there.

edited 3rd May '14 6:26:23 AM by ACW

Might be a good idea. Vandal Savage's specific entry is badly written as is. It seems like a nattery conversation that was just compressed with proper indentation but is still arguing with itself.

• DC's Vandal Savage (who, having been alive since caveman days, is a little bit more than Really 700 Years Old) has often acted quite genteel towards Earth's heroes. OTOH, he did have an unsatisfactory minion for dinner with some of his colleagues and other subordinates. Sorry, he had the minion as dinner. And he did pressure his daughter to marry somebody, or at least to have a child. I'd categorize him as Faux Affably Evil; sociopath who is surprisingly persuasive. Not actually likable, but still fairly persuasive, if only through the controversial "agree or I burn your parents alive" technique.

I also proposed a Bond subpage.

• Comics also has Max!Bullseye.
• Film has Goldfinger.
• Literature has Holden and Nicodemus.
• Live-Action TV has a few.
• VG has Bob Page, Burke, Master Li, and Balder.

edited 3rd May '14 7:39:03 AM by ACW

Know for a fact that Holden, Nicodemus, Page, and Li are Faux Affably Evil.

Still have MAX!Bullseye, Burke, Balder, and Goldfinger.

Lighty, I think you can probably add your additions for Bullseye and Malekith.

edited 3rd May '14 10:08:38 AM by ACW

I wouldn't call Goldfinger Affably Evil. He just likes flaunting how Wicked Cultured he is.

And MAX!Bullseye just seems insane. How about Burke and Balder?

Likewise, Faux. I support the Bond subpage, cutting Marissa and the other examples mentioned above with Freddy v. Jason and Doc X.and the Rat king and Bond rewrites

Seriously the idea Judge fucking Holden is 'affably' evil is a joke.

Alright, that takes care of those. I'll make this my to-do list:

• Images

edited 3rd Jul '14 4:35:00 PM by ACW

Can I get rid of that movie reference in the Fenrir Greyback entry? The entry should only focus on his literary incarnation and it's not, like the entry states, merely implied he's a cannibal in the books, it's flat-out confirmed as he's shown trying to eat Harry at the Battle on the Astronomy Tower, wants to eat Hermione when Bellatrix is done torturing her, and attacks Lavender at the Battle of Hogwarts.

Also any objections if I add the following to Voldemort's entry?

• "Throughout the books Voldemort tried to open the Chamber of Secrets as a teenager to wipe out all "mud-bloods" (witches or wizards born of non-magical individuals) in Hogwarts, killed his father and grandparents and framed his uncle for the crime, ordered Cedric Diggory's murder, murdered an entire family because the mother didn't know where someone Voldemort was looking for was, indiscriminately killed his followers when given bad news, and killed the seemingly loyal, Severus Snape because he believed his minion's death would grant him greater power."

I plan on making it the third-to-last sentence of the entry.

edited 3rd May '14 1:39:38 PM by OccasionalExister

Sure, go ahead.

Should the words "Chamber of Secrets" pot-link to the book.

I think I have a candidate, Jenna, from the give yourself Goosebumps book, Scream of the evil genie.

Jenna is an evil genie who, while not quite has bad as the djinn from Wish Master is still pretty bad. Depending on the choices the reader makes, her wishes can kill the main character, have him take her place as a genie, Turn him into a living painting forever, and so on. Going over all the possible scenarios would take forever, but she is never shown in a positive light. She is just a Jackass Genie with no redeeming features.

In this case, no, since it's referring to the actual Chamber. Feel free to cut that sentence if you want about Fenrir (actually I'll do that right now). As to that Mudblood bit, I'd make it "Mud-Bloods (half-Muggles, of which he was one)"...

I HOPE she's not as bad as the Wishmaster djinn!

edited 3rd May '14 1:19:55 PM by ACW

Actually "mud-bloods" are witches or wizards born from two muggles. Half-bloods are witches or wizards born from a muggle and a mage. I will specify what a "mud-blood" is though.

You're right; I should have known that Still probably mention Voldy's Boomerang Bigotry.

Like I did; I also made a few other minor changes. Should we get rid of the part about Voldy's Freudian Excuse?

edited 3rd May '14 1:43:18 PM by ACW

Also, I'd like to mention Umbridge sending two Dementors after Harry and his cousin as well as Fenrir's actions during the Battle of the Astronomy Tower (trying to eat Harry), and the Battle of Hogwarts (trying to eat Lavender).

We should probably keep that Voldy's Freudian Excuse serves more as a cautionary tale rather than a true one just so that no one would think that he's not as bad as we let on.

Zorin... I know someone (can't recall who) argued against him on the basis that they thought he had a Villainous Friendship with Scarpine and Dr. Mortner, the only two members of his entourage not to be Killed to Uphold the Masquerade.

Well... it's official. The villain in Twilight's Kingdom is going to be discussed soon especially now that it looks like it's Tirek from the picture revealed. Should we just vote to cut all examples of this new villain right now, since because of the show's themes, it can't have a Complete Monster even if Tirek were to return? Have we already gone over him? If not, now would be a good time to start. Also, he escaped from Tartarus, the pony version of hell, so people are going to assume he's pure evil based on that.

I really wish we could just trim the fat for those MLP darkfic examples, many of them look too silly to be played seriously especially all those fics where the Mane Six are irredeemable assholes. I just can't take Cupcakes or Rainbow Factory seriously.

No. It is really frigging unlikely that he will qualify, but I think we made a mistake (albeit a useful one) in saying that it is flat-out impossible for the show to ever have an example.

To a Pony darkfic purge. "They're so dark they're inherently ridiculous" is what I've always believed.