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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#248126: Feb 16th 2021 at 4:23:08 PM

Yes to the Dragon King and the Batman Who Laughs.

Disappointed the Robin King wasn’t the second candidate. Was he outheinoused or something?

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
jdubbam Since: Jan, 2020
#248128: Feb 16th 2021 at 4:32:26 PM

For your consideration, a character from a fanfiction that I've gone back and revisited many times over the years:

What's The Work?

Popped is a My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic Dark Fic written by Tapoff, exclusive to the fansite Fimfiction.net. The story follows Pinkie Pie is she is kidnapped on Hearth's Warming Eve, with things only getting worse from there as her friends and family enact a desperate search for her.

Who Is Pokey Pierce, And What Has He Done?

An incidental background pony in the show (wherein he is canonically dubbed Royal Pin), Pokey Pierce is a barbarous serial killer with a insinuated long list of victims. On a seemingly innocuous trip to Sugarcube Corner, Pokey very quickly reveals his true colors when he lures Pinkie to the back of the aforementioned bakery and viciously assaults her.

Taking Pinkie to his cabin, Pokey subjects her to gradationally horrific sessions of Cold-Blooded Torture of both the physical and psychological varieties, where he is shown to be deeply invested in Pinkie's misery and pleading every step of the way, on top of callously destroying letters from Pinkie's friends and family back in Ponyville after promising to read them to her.

Meanwhile, as the search for Pinkie continues to draw up dead ends, Rainbow Dash and Applejack decide to set out and find her themselves following a nasty spat with Twilight over what they're going to do. Separated upon reaching Pokey's domain, the two mares meet their respective ends at Pokey's hooves. Drugging Rainbow, Pokey brings her to the very basement where he has kept Pinkie, with the Pegasus discovering to her horror how badly Pinkie has been multiated over the course of her disappearance. Pokey barely gives Rainbow a fighting chance to take him down herself before decapitating her with a hacksaw, while Pinkie can do nothing but watch.

After forcing Pinkie to dismember Rainbow's headless corpse, encouraging her throughout the process by repeatedly attacking her with a whip, Pokey runs into Applejack while burying Rainbow's remains. Following a frenzied chase through the woods ending in Applejack's left back leg split in two, Pokey maims the farmhoof even further before burying her alive alongside what's left of Rainbow Dash.

Though Pinkie is found and brought home by Equestrian authorities to Ponyville shortly after Applejack's fate, Pokey manages to evade them and ultimately gets away with all of his actions, with Pinkie not only rendered inconsable from her ordeals, but ultimately Driven to Suicide.

Do They Have Any Mitigating Factors Or A Freudian Excuse?

Nope. At no point in the story is Pokey shown to have any genuine remorse for who he is or what he's doing, nor is there anything pointing to how he became the way he is. While he is said to be strongly unnerved by Applejack's leg injury, it's most certainly not of any concern for her and more towards the fact he simply didn't see it coming, and he still goes out of his way to coyly mock Applejack when she asks just how terrible of a shape her leg is in.

Does He Meet The Heinousness Standard?

As the sole Big Bad, Pokey's only real competition is Pinkie, the rest of the Mane 6 (plus Spike), the rest of the Pie Family, and Celestia. While select members of cast are portrayed as being outwardly flawed (namely Twilight, Applejack, and Rainbow, with the former three quarreling over what to do in regards to finding Pinkie rather than actually looking for her, and the latter displaying a lack of concern towards Twilight's deteriorating self-worth over the events in the face of increasing political pressure), none of them are shown to be as excessively cruel as Pokey in any way, shape or form.

At the very worst, any dubious behavior on their part can be attributed to them acting under a colossal amount of stress. Pinkie herself becomes rather cold to her friends towards the story's end, but considering everything she had gone through up until that point and how she even believed that they were never coming for her prior to Applejack and Rainbow's botched rescue attempt, it's absolutely understandable.

Final Verdict

While I'll leave the verdict that actually matters for you guys to decide, for me, I'd say it's a definite yes.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#248129: Feb 16th 2021 at 4:36:44 PM

...Does this fic have a plot beyond "bad guy tortures people"? Under the current guidelines, we need something more than that in most cases.

Also, a minor quibble, but the heinousness standard is about how the candidate stands out in terms of deeds, not what redeeming/mitigating qualities they lack compared to other characters.

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#248130: Feb 16th 2021 at 4:37:12 PM

[tdown] to Pokey Pierce. I'm afraid that we don't allow Ron the Death Eater fanfics on here, as Pokey Pierce is just a normal background character in the show and this fanfic just demonizes him for shock value and nothing more.

[down] Fair point. But reading from the trop page, it sounds like a torture fic with no substantial plot and just features the bad guy torturing a bunch of people for shock shlock. I'm going to maintain my [tdown].

Edited by DrUnknown on Feb 16th 2021 at 4:41:56 AM

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#248131: Feb 16th 2021 at 4:38:38 PM

[up] Honestly, I'm not sure this is a case of Ron the Death Eater as opposed to just giving Adaptational Villainy to an O.C. Stand-in.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#248132: Feb 16th 2021 at 4:45:16 PM

[tdown]Pokey

BTW, on Video Games: 0 to F we need to cut the Artix examples, what with the page going up.

jdubbam Since: Jan, 2020
#248133: Feb 16th 2021 at 4:45:38 PM

The core of the story is more or less extreme Torture Porn, yes, but it alternates between that and a sub-plot how the Mane 6 and Pinkie's family deal with her absence. Towards the end it shifts from that towards more of a straightforward drama about the fallout from Pinkie's trauma and Survivor Guilt from her stay at the cabin and Rainbow and Applejack's murders.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#248134: Feb 16th 2021 at 4:49:55 PM

Abstaining, as I am leery of MLP fanfics, especially ones which are absurdly heinous by the standards of the setting.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 16th 2021 at 7:50:35 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#248135: Feb 16th 2021 at 4:53:22 PM

Not voting on more Pony Torture Porn. Expressing my befuddlement with how this is even still an enduring genre would be redundant at this point.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#248137: Feb 16th 2021 at 4:57:07 PM

[tdown]Porkey

Why do People like turning MLP into a bloody and gorey mess like this

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#248138: Feb 16th 2021 at 5:00:20 PM

[tdown] to the shock fic candidate.

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#248139: Feb 16th 2021 at 5:04:59 PM

[up][up] Would you believe me if I say that not the worst of what certain fans will do with MLP.

In any case, [tdown] to the MLP Fanfiction candidate.

[down] Yep, something like that. Why it was made, we may never know.

Edited by Michealthehero21 on Feb 16th 2021 at 5:06:25 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#248140: Feb 16th 2021 at 5:05:27 PM

Yeah I'm aware of cupcakes for example...

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#248141: Feb 16th 2021 at 5:07:48 PM

We don't really need to go into those fics.

Going back on track, I agree that 22-Joker should be cut.

Edited by AustinDR on Feb 16th 2021 at 5:08:19 AM

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#248142: Feb 16th 2021 at 5:08:42 PM

[up] You're absolutely right. It's for the best that they remain undiscussed.

EDIT: Oh, that also reminds, cut 22-Joker. Never thought I would live to see the day that I would I see a version of Joker get cut.

Edited by Michealthehero21 on Feb 16th 2021 at 5:10:09 AM

MalleoWeegee Evolution Requires Sacrifice. from Eurasia Since: Apr, 2020 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
ACT4583 [Insert Name] Since: Nov, 2020
[Insert Name]
#248144: Feb 16th 2021 at 5:14:22 PM

Leaning towards a cut for the MLP fanfic character.

BULLET TO THE FACE!
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#248145: Feb 16th 2021 at 5:16:01 PM

[up]We weren't really cutting anybody

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#248146: Feb 16th 2021 at 5:18:48 PM

Just reading the whole EP, I'mma give a hard [tdown] to Pokey Pierce.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#248147: Feb 16th 2021 at 5:27:11 PM

No to Pokey.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 16th 2021 at 7:28:16 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#248148: Feb 16th 2021 at 5:32:41 PM

[tdown] to Pokey Pierce. looking at the page it seems to be pure shock value exploitation.

ASghhrv6ub Best Smile from Second star to the right. Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#248150: Feb 16th 2021 at 5:42:07 PM

No to pokey

And I know that this is pretty much resolved, but just because I'll probably never get to say this again: cut the Joker and yes to Batman Who Laughs.


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