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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#248101: Feb 16th 2021 at 1:44:49 PM

Yea. Reading his crimes, I am leaning towards cutting the Joker. The heinous standard in this series is even higher than Warhammer 40k.

However, we should also take into account that the Joker has very limited resources compared to the other keepers.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#248102: Feb 16th 2021 at 1:45:20 PM

[tup] TBWL and Focaccia. Abstain on Tim.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#248103: Feb 16th 2021 at 1:46:58 PM

Resources is not a "get on free card." When Joker Prime thought he was dying like Joker-22 did, he took a step above taking it out on Gotham and tried to poison the entire planet with his Joker toxins. How can we say Joker-22 sticks out when Joker is doing this kind of shit on the regular, no matter where he pops up?

Edited by Scraggle on Feb 16th 2021 at 2:47:48 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#248104: Feb 16th 2021 at 1:48:22 PM

Hmm, that's true. Even regular Joker isn't averse to hurting kids (the Forced to Watch may be unique, but...eh).

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#248105: Feb 16th 2021 at 1:48:38 PM

@Scraggle

OK, now I am convinced that we should cut him.

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#248106: Feb 16th 2021 at 1:49:18 PM

Yeah, I'm with Scraggle on this. Cut Earth-22 Joker. This heinousness standard looks too fucked for him to stay.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#248107: Feb 16th 2021 at 1:49:37 PM

Cut joker

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
MalleoWeegee Evolution Requires Sacrifice. from Eurasia Since: Apr, 2020 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#248110: Feb 16th 2021 at 1:52:03 PM

Oh....actually, I forgot to mention...

The regular-verse Joker? It's confirmed he tries to do the same thing to Batman and does infect him to turn him into something like Laughs. Batman resists it and the Joker ultimately goes back on it, but yeah.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#248111: Feb 16th 2021 at 1:52:37 PM

Cut Earth-22 Joker

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#248112: Feb 16th 2021 at 1:52:41 PM

And thinking about it, I think I'll have the Dark Nights stuff solely on DC, but a link on the Batman page.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#248113: Feb 16th 2021 at 1:52:47 PM

Cut the clown.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#248115: Feb 16th 2021 at 2:01:01 PM

[tup] to the Batman Who Laughs. Something poetic about him qualifying after Superboy Prime was disqualified.

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#248116: Feb 16th 2021 at 2:07:08 PM

[tup] to Captain Nazi, Dr. De'Sawed, the Dragon King, the Batman Who Laughs, and Focaccia.

[tdown] to the Bruce and Tim Finch.

Cut Earth-22 Joker.

@ACW: Okay. I'll do my part to get my write-up out of the way.

  • Stasis: Doctor Geradus Malan is the Head of Special Projects for the Cayne Corporation, which is responsible for conducting illegal human experiments. On the Groomlake, Malan leads efforts to kidnap random citizens to harvest their organs, where he clones them to expand his operations and kill hundreds more. Proposing Project SEED to create the ultimate super soldier, Malan experiments on countless humans that deform them into feral hybrids, where they are disposed of if they show defections, while others are produced by impregnating captured women with them. Out of spite towards John for ruining his project, Malan unleashes a hybrid on his daughter and forces him to watch her demise.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#248117: Feb 16th 2021 at 2:09:25 PM

nix Joker (man imagine being outheinoused by your ARCH NEMESIS)

ACT4583 [Insert Name] Since: Nov, 2020
[Insert Name]
#248118: Feb 16th 2021 at 2:10:33 PM

[tup] to TBWL. Abstain on Earth-22 Joker.

Edited by ACT4583 on Feb 16th 2021 at 5:12:44 AM

BULLET TO THE FACE!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#248119: Feb 16th 2021 at 2:17:30 PM

Yeah cut the Joker... small potatoes at this point.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#248120: Feb 16th 2021 at 2:32:35 PM

Cut Jokey.

Sure to Focaccia.

Also, Medical Rape and Impregnate is a thing.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 16th 2021 at 6:09:24 AM

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#248121: Feb 16th 2021 at 2:53:29 PM

[tup] to the Batman Who Laughs and Focaccia.

LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#248123: Feb 16th 2021 at 3:18:23 PM

[tup] Batman who Laughs. As for Joker, looks like Criminal Minds Syndrome strikes again.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
ASghhrv6ub Best Smile from Second star to the right. Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#248125: Feb 16th 2021 at 4:13:31 PM

BTW, for Highlander, for Kurgan's revised entry, what should I use for his name? Ax-Crazy? Blood Knight? Psychopathic Manchild? Big Bad doesn't really work, so, let's put it this way: If you had to describe him in a single trope, what would it be?

Also, which comics? Is it just Highlander Origins: The Kurgan?

Edited by ACW on Feb 16th 2021 at 7:15:36 AM


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