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Happy yes to the Batman Who Laughs. One of my favorite DC villains in recent years.

Darkest Knight. Great job Lighty!

And to think we we were all saying he didn't count, happy to T Bw L

Happy Yes to The Batman Who Laughs

...Huh. Yes to that Batman.

Still puzzling how he killed Perpetua yet was defeated by Wonder Woman.

Honestly, this DC comic sounds really over the top in terms of heinousness.

Big 'Yes' to the Batman Who Laughs, awesome work on that one, man! Same on Dragon King! Leaning 'No' on Tim, all things considered.

And yeah, my thoughts on "the Bruce" remain the same: there's way too many indicators of genuine mental illness and him possibly being a victim himself for me to be comfortable with him going up. I will say, this is probably the first time an argument I made four years ago damn being used to great effect in modern day, so great job remembering that one more

Edited by Ravok on Feb 16th 2021 at 12:43:16 PM

I'm talking to Lighty about the Dark Nights tree, but something I want the thread's opinion on: Should it go to DC AND Batman, or just one (and IF just one, WHICH one?)? I'm thinking either both or the main DC page.

Diana was empowered WAY beyond usual, with the Metals. She was just as strong as Laughs then

Okay, this is my third time trying to write this EP. Let's hope it works this time.

Anyone Can Become a Hero is a crossover between Steel Ball Run and My Hero Academia where Johnny and Gyro join Class 1-A to become heroes. And of course, Stands become involved, making the dangerous game between heroes and villains even more so. Case in point:

Who is Focaccia? What has he done?

Focaccia is the Villain of the Week for the "Dream On" arc, and he wielder of the eponymous Stand. Formerly a member of Passione, he betrayed and murdered his squad to steal their haul for himself, then fled to Japan to avoid reprisal.

While there, he decides to go after the bounty that the League of Villains placed on Class 1-A's heads. To this end, he attaches Dream On to Johnny, and the Stand brings out his worst nightmares in order to feed off of his misery, in hopes of eventually driving him to suicide and stealing his soul. Johnny has a lot of that, so it grows strong quickly and spreads to the other members of 1-A. Fortunately for everyone but Focaccia, Izuku manages to break out of his nightmare, and starts breaking his classmates out (along with Eraserhead and Midnight).

The class gets to Johnny's nightmare last, where Dream On forces them to watch its "play" (a compilation of Johnny's traumas), threatening to kill them if they don't cooperate. Once it is done, Dream On reveals the final part of its plan: force Johnny to watch as it kills them all, finally driving him over the edge.

Naturally, they fight back, but they can't damage Dream On in Johnny's dream. Only Johnny can do that, and he's in despair. Dream On quickly overwhelms them all, but as it is deciding how to kill them, Gyro manages to snap Johnny out of it long enough for Johnny to drive Dream On away. Dream On promises vengeance before fleeing.

It never gets the chance, though, because Giorno shows up to collect on Focaccia's debts. Focaccia tries to buy him off with Class 1-A's secrets. It doesn't work.

Heinousness?

The Dream On arc takes place right after the tournament arc in MHA, and in terms of enemy Stand users, we've encountered three: Oyecomova, Dr. Ferdinand, and another original villain. Trying to kill kids is already something that isn't unique. But the thing about Oyecomova, Shigaraki, Stylo, and Ferdinand is, they let their foes die on their feet. Focaccia's MO is thoroughly breaking his victims' minds before killing them, and it is something he has done before and greatly enjoys. And afterwards, he steals their souls so they can't even rest, so he can enjoy their last few memories before they died. Basically, we have a cross between Telence D'Arby and Dr. Destiny, which is more than enough for a Villain of the Week.

Mitigating factors?

Dream On is sentient, but he still controls it directly. It's not an automatic Stand. I bring this up because I'm not sure how it relates to the discussion; out of the Jojo keepers we have, the only one with a sentient Stand is Kenzo, and his Stand does not share its master's twisted nature. Dream On does. Because it was made from his Focaccia's soul, I'll go with it being Made of Evil for now, but because Foccacia still controls it directly, I'll hold its actions against him.

Verdict?

I'd say .

Edited by Critica7 on Feb 16th 2021 at 8:39:47 AM

The Batman Who Laughs.

Batman Who Laughs

First off, before the proposed tree, a slight rewrite:

• The Batman Who Laughs #1, written by James Tynion IV: The Joker of Earth-22, after discovering the chemicals that made him into what he is are also killing him, decided to start his endgame, and began by butchering his fellow rogues, along with Commissioner Gordon. Taking Batman hostage after learning his identity, Joker razes Gotham, making him watch as Gotham General Hospital crumbles. Then he begins to reenact Batman's origins by forcing children to walk through Crime Alley with their parents, shooting the parents dead, and driving the children mad with Joker toxin. This causes Batman to snap, break free from his bounds and finally kill The Joker by snapping his neck, allowing his corrupting gas to turn Batman into the next Joker after inhaling it. Despite his limited page time, the Joker of this Earth is responsible for every life The Batman who Laughs has taken.

I propose chopping that last sentence (since it's not EVERY life apparently), and change the new last sentence to "This causes Batman to snap, break free from his bounds and finally kill The Joker by snapping his neck, but allowing the corrupting gas to turn Batman into the next Joker."

In my defense, as i read though the comic, i didn't see any signs of him being seriosly mentally ill, the story never portrayed his state and action in any sympathetic or tragic way (and i don't mean that in "he's a tragic figure but" way, i mean the writer written him to as evil and hateable as possible). He always seemed to care more about staying in power and considering how wild "Cult of The Bat" is, his demand for Joseph to kill him may be to prevent the Cult tear him apart.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Feb 16th 2021 at 11:56:34 PM

Sure to Focaccia.

Here it is:

• Dark Nights saga:
  • The Batman Who Laughs
  • Metal:
    • The dark god Barbatos, one of the first beings in all creation, turned on and killed his master the Forger, allowing a multiverse of worlds to decay and rot, eventually forming the Dark Multiverse. Influencing Earth to spread evil and cause bloodshed and destruction, Barbatos developed a fixation on Bruce Wayne after encountering him on his trip through time. Barbatos proceeded to allow countless worlds to die to torment each Bruce Wayne and corrupt him in a myriad of realities, choosing the seven most twisted and evil incarnations of Batman as his Dark Knights. Invading the Multiverse and coldly having his loyal servants, the Court of Owls, disposed of, Barbatos has the Dark Knights wreak death and destruction on a global scale, having countless innocents corrupted to serve as a power source for his machines in order to eventually bring the Dark Multiverse into reality, completely wiping out most of the Multiverse and killing or corrupting everything there while Barbatos reigns over it like a god. One of the most evil beings to ever grace the Multiverse, Barbatos shows himself utterly devoted to making everything that lives suffer until it is a reflection of his own twisted self.
    • The Batman Who Laughs #1, written by James Tynion IV: The Joker of Earth-22, after discovering the chemicals that made him into what he is are also killing him, decided to start his endgame, and began by butchering his fellow rogues, along with Commissioner Gordon. Taking Batman hostage after learning his identity, Joker razes Gotham, making him watch as Gotham General Hospital crumbles. Then he begins to reenact Batman's origins by forcing children to walk through Crime Alley with their parents, shooting the parents dead, and driving the children mad with Joker toxin. This causes Batman to snap, break free from his bounds and finally kill Joker by snapping his neck, but allowing the corrupting gas to turn Batman into the next Joker.
  • Death Metal: Perpetua
  • Tales from the Dark Multiverse: Teen Titans: The Judas Contract: In this dark retelling, Tara Markov, also known as Terra, spurred on by a conversation with Nightwing, becomes an absolute monster. After killing Deathstroke in an attempt to get out from under his shadow, Tara forces his butler to inject her with the serum that gave Deathstroke his power under the threat of killing everything Deathstroke loved. With the Serum drastically improving her powers, Tara renames herself Gaia, killing the Teen Titans by blowing up Titans Tower with a geyser of lava and jettisoning the survivors into space. When chasing down Nightwing, she forces him out of hiding by killing civilians and taunting him about killing his friends before murdering him and Wally West. When Superman attempts to stop her, she retaliates by flooding the city with lava, using the distraction to kill him with a storm of kryptonite shards. Tara then destabilizes the planet's core, killing billions in an attempt to hold the planet hostage in exchange for the superheroes keeping her alive and allowing her to do whatever she wants. Finishing with killing Changeling, the one who attempted to bond with her, Tara Markov proved to be nothing more than a sociopathic traitor who cared only about being feared by everyone.

Focaccia

to The Batman Who Laughs, it's his time now finally.

to The Batman Who Laughs

Focaccia

Focaccia and of course to The Batman Who Laughs

Yes to the Batman Who Laughs and Focaccia.

Leaning no to Tim.

Edited by falcontalons on Feb 16th 2021 at 1:11:22 AM

The Darkest Knight.

Focaccia.

Foca and Batman Who Laughs. Yeezus.

Yes to Batjoker. I think everything from his conception to his entire event has been stupid as sin, but I digress.

I'm gonna venture forth and say with reduced responsibility in what Batjoker ultimately chooses to become, Earth-22 Joker needs to go. What we're left with is a Joker who commits a slightly worse crime for his standard than usual (and has certainly regularly attempted shit just as vile, regardless of which Earth you're talking about) and an intention to turn Batman into the next Joker—I'm certain "have Bats attempt to torture-murder everything across the multiverse" wasn't ever remotely part of his plan.

Would he complain? Of course not. But I can't see him sticking out as an individual CM anymore when the BWL (Batman Who Laughs) eventually developed his own agency beyond the catalyst his Joker forced on him, and that Joker's actual deliberate crimes I don't think are really pushing him beyond Joker Prime or New 52!Joker or any one of the gajillion Elseworld versions who aaalll try and make Batman laugh through their atrocities. It's not quite accurate to say Joker-22 is an Unwitting Instigator of Doom considering he wanted to break Bruce in the first place, but it's not accurate to shove all or even most of the responsibility for who the BWL became, now that he's proven morally aware enough to become a CM in his own right despite the shit he was put through.

I'm fine with all the other new additions from Dark Knights but I don't think Joker-22 should be staying up with them. It's a fair point from another troper that the standard of this series is fucked and there should be some reflection on that.

I mean, murdering kids' parents in front of them before using the gas on the kids seems pretty awful...but considering everything the other keepers do? Shrug, I could go either way.

I also reread Terra's entry; she kills billions, so I think she can stay.

Edited by ACW on Feb 16th 2021 at 4:42:32 AM