TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#245526: Jan 29th 2021 at 11:56:48 AM

[tup] Hwang.

So is Superboy-Prime gonna have to be taken off the Never Again list?

Edited by MasterN on Jan 29th 2021 at 11:59:53 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
MalleoWeegee Evolution Requires Sacrifice. from Eurasia Since: Apr, 2020 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Evolution Requires Sacrifice.
#245527: Jan 29th 2021 at 12:00:02 PM

Yes. SMG4 should also be put on the Never Again List because it's a parody-based series.

[down]See here

Edited by MalleoWeegee on Jan 29th 2021 at 3:03:32 PM

"I SHALL UNIFY THE WORLD! FROM ALPHA TO OMEGA... BOW DOWN TO ME!!!"
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#245528: Jan 29th 2021 at 12:00:50 PM

[up] Has it really been brought up enough to justify putting it on there?

TVRulezAgain Since: Sep, 2011
#245529: Jan 29th 2021 at 12:02:54 PM

I was about to ask that. The Never Again list is for topics that have been discussed to death and we're sick of repeating.

Edited by TVRulezAgain on Jan 29th 2021 at 12:03:18 PM

Atlantis1930 Since: May, 2012
#245530: Jan 29th 2021 at 12:05:16 PM

[tdown] Superboy.

I’m currently working my way through The Killing (The Danish version) and think I may have a couple of candidates from it soon.

However, I’d like to talk about a character from the franchise Highlander (say it with me: “THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!”) who I feel may have flown under the radar.

Just to give an extremely brief summary in case you haven’t seen it: Highlander revolves around immortals fighting each other. This is called “The Game”. All of them will fight until there is only one left who can claim the "prize", though what this is is left unsaid.

Who is he?

Arthur Drakov, from the series 2 episode “Warmonger”. In his mortal guise, Drakov appears to be the security chief for an unnamed Baltic country, currently engaged in a dreadful war with its neighbours.

However, Drakov is actually an Ax-Crazy immortal who enjoys creating war and genocide in multiple different countries just for the sake of it, and has been involved in numerous blood baths the whole world over; stoking war, genocide and general mayhem in places including Africa, Bosnia and Armenia.

What he done?

During the episode, it’s revealed that Drakov once worked his way up to a position of authority in the Soviet union. As soon as he gained power, Drakov did what he did best: use his position to terrify, bully and execute anyone he likes, sending whole families off to die, and trying to make Russia descend into a perpetual state of chaos and warfare.

First encountering Duncan Macleod after arresting the Abernov’s and attempting to have them executed, Drakov only relents when Macleod draws his sword and threatens to take Drakov’s head. Seeing an opportunity and that Macleod is an honourable fool who will keep any promise he gives, Drakov makes Macleod swear that he will never interfere with him in the future. When Macleod gives his assent, Drakov lets the Abernov’s go but confiscates everything they have anyway. He then exiles them permanently from Russia.

Later in his life, Drakov also rose to a position of power within the Romanian secret police, again using it to massacre anyone he liked. Encountering a man called Eli, Drakov attempted to force the man to betray his brother’s and, upon the man’s refusal, had both of his children and wife killed in front of them and their bodies hung up and displayed.

Which brings us to the present day events of the episode...

At the opening of the episode, the president of the Baltic state that Drakov has been tasked with safeguarding has struck up a peace treaty against the country they are warring against. Unwilling to accept this, Drakov has the man assassinated by having a call girl seduce him, and then shooting him dead. As soon as this is done, Drakov then kills the call girl as well, making sure to draw out the moments before he shoots her so that she’ll be terrified when she dies. He then frames it to look like a murder-suicide, ensuring that the peace treaty is rendered null and allowing the war to continue, claiming lots of additional lives in the process.

Meeting Duncan and Eli again at a theater, Drakov mocks Eli for his family's death at his hands. He then lords the vow that Duncan made over him, telling him that he can do anything and Duncan can’t interfere.

When Eli attempts to kill him (unknowing that Drakov is immortal) Drakov’s men shoot him and Drakov later mocks Duncan for his death. After a journalist called Beth Vaughan starts digging for dirt on Drakov, Drakov has her kidnapped and taken to his embassy, but not before ordering his men to also assassinate the vice president when he decides to finalize the peace treaty.

All this finally proves too much for Duncan, who intercepts Drakov as he attempts to leave the country. Duncan challenges him to a duel and then takes Drakov’s head in the ensuing fight.

Heinous standard?

Now the heinous standard for Highlander is quite high (it has its own page of CM’s for a reason) but Drakov is bad even by the standards of the franchise. Very few of the immortals are out and out mass murdering sadists, and Drakov is not only that, but a repeat mass murderer as well, giving him a body count that surpasses even some of the immortals currently listed as CM’s like Felicia Martins. Even rarer are ones who have done it as much as Drakov has, putting him up there with the worst of the worst immortals in terms of total kills over the span of his life. He is also notably one of the few immortals that Duncan expresses nothing but unbridled revulsion towards.

Child murder, on the other hand, is even rarer, and Drakov did this to Eli with relish, and forced him to watch no less! And that’s not even getting into the fact that he says he took the lives of multiple families in the same way.

In short? Easily breaches it, surpassing even currently listed CM’s in the highlander verse.

Redeeming qualities or Freudian Excuse?

Now, Drakov DOES keep his promise to Macloed and let’s the Abernov’s live in exile, but it’s hard to see any redeeming quality in this for two reasons:

1. As both Macleod and he are immortals, having Macleod swear a vow of non interference and making sure he keeps it is far more important to Drakov than sparing one family among the many he slaughters on a regular basis. This would give Drakov an advantage in “The Game” In short, Drakov only makes and keeps this vow because he knows that he can do whatever he damn well likes afterwards and count on Duncan to not interfere. And sure enough, Drakov screws Duncan over on his vow as soon as he gets the chance.

2. Drakov has them banished and confiscates everything they have, which is already an extremely harsh punishment. Macleod steals Drakov’s jewels and gives them the monetary means to start a new in exile, but Drakov exiled them with the express view of making their “new life” as miserable as possible.

Other than that? Nothing even worth mentioning.

Conclusion?

Having gone through this, I can’t see any reason why Drakov shouldn’t count. A yes from me.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#245531: Jan 29th 2021 at 12:06:04 PM

Again, our goal is not to have a long ass list of things people wouldn't stop talking about. If these have been brought up and shot down a few times they don't need to go on the wall of shame... it's embarrassing and reflects inability to accept consensus. Prime should be cut since he was on the NA as a keeper.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#245533: Jan 29th 2021 at 12:11:09 PM

Do we see flashbacks of Drakov's actions before the episode?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#245534: Jan 29th 2021 at 12:13:18 PM

Knowing Highlander as wlel as I do, I'd actually meant to check Drakov. That's gonna be a yes for the show.

Atlantis1930 Since: May, 2012
#245535: Jan 29th 2021 at 12:14:42 PM

Yes we do. We see him rounding people up with the Soviet's to be executed. The Romanian stuff, as it didn't involve Duncan, is not shown explicitly but it's talked about by Eli in some depth, and drives home what a depraved lunatic Drakov is. There are also multiple photos of him in different regions around the world doing what he does best.

Edited by Atlantis1930 on Jan 29th 2021 at 8:17:01 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#245536: Jan 29th 2021 at 12:17:08 PM

Eh, and considering he tries to stop the peace treaty, AND with Lighty's backup, I'll give a yes.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#245537: Jan 29th 2021 at 12:17:13 PM

In comparison, others who'd compare to his tier:

  • Kage, a mass murdering criminal, who abandoned children to be killed by the Khmer Rouge (does NOT count, the horror of the children's deaths brought about a major Heel–Face Turn)
  • Kristov, a mass murdering, village-burning cossack who has become a gangster in modern day.
  • Bartholomew, a Crusader who had a village slaughtered to cover up his financial crimes.

When it comes to immortals with the level of authority Drakov represents, I think he stands out, as opposed to Martins' one-woman serial killing show.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#245538: Jan 29th 2021 at 12:18:47 PM

[tup]Drakov

[up]Theirs also kern who is listed who wiped out native American villages right ?

Edited by miraculous on Jan 29th 2021 at 12:20:43 PM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#245540: Jan 29th 2021 at 12:20:19 PM

Kern is just an army scout and soldier, not a leader, which makes his actions hold out more. The guy has been a rapist marauder since the 1300s.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#245541: Jan 29th 2021 at 12:20:28 PM

I'm guessing Martins is low-tier?

Also, wow, this makes 9 from the show, plus 2 from the spinoff.

Out of curiosity, who's the highest-tier CM from the franchise? Kurgan? Kortan?

Edited by ACW on Jan 29th 2021 at 3:21:51 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#245542: Jan 29th 2021 at 12:21:18 PM

It's a show with like a new villain almost every episode

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#245543: Jan 29th 2021 at 12:23:56 PM

[up][up]Ahirman ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#245544: Jan 29th 2021 at 12:25:35 PM

Of the franchise, proper, it's probably...I dunno, Kortan, Marcus Octavius or something to that effect.

MalleoWeegee Evolution Requires Sacrifice. from Eurasia Since: Apr, 2020 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Evolution Requires Sacrifice.
#245545: Jan 29th 2021 at 12:25:45 PM

[tup] to Drakov.

[up][up][up][up]Kurgan

Edited by MalleoWeegee on Jan 29th 2021 at 3:26:02 PM

"I SHALL UNIFY THE WORLD! FROM ALPHA TO OMEGA... BOW DOWN TO ME!!!"
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#245546: Jan 29th 2021 at 12:28:39 PM

Kurgan's not even that high tier in resources. He's the strongest immortal, but he's usually just a marauder. By modern times, he's a biker with no major authority.

Atlantis1930 Since: May, 2012
#245547: Jan 29th 2021 at 12:34:49 PM

From all the episodes of the show I've watched, I'd probably place Ernst Daimler as the absolute worst. Or at least, he was the one I was most disgusted by.

Edited by Atlantis1930 on Jan 29th 2021 at 8:35:55 PM

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#245548: Jan 29th 2021 at 12:38:30 PM

[tup] to Batty, Kark, Hwang and Drakov. Cut Spellbinder and SBP.

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#245550: Jan 29th 2021 at 12:49:04 PM

[tup] Drakov

Axe Spellbinder and Superboy "Kill you to death" Prime

It's Spooky Month!

Total posts: 326,048
Top