During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Evolution Requires Sacrifice.
I propose that Spellbinder should be cut.
Edited by MalleoWeegee on Jan 29th 2021 at 2:04:35 PM
"I SHALL UNIFY THE WORLD! FROM ALPHA TO OMEGA... BOW DOWN TO ME!!!"
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Spellbinder
I'm gonna let the Spellbinder discussion play out, but this is definitely a good faith challenge.
Okay, I have one candidate now, before my other Woo and the Death Metal one...and I'll say it now: cut Superboy Prime. He does get the Redemption Equals Death and it's done by Geoff Johns.
That said:
What's the work?
Sweet Home is a netflix adaptation of the webcomic, which has been covered here before....the premise? An apartment building in Korea is under siege by monsters, with the residents banding together...now, one sneaks into the apartment, Pyun Sang-wook, an apparently brutal hitman who...is torturing a seemingly mild-mannered resident named Hwang seung-jae....well...
Who is Hwang Seung-jae?
A seemingly normal fellow...and th target of Sang-wook. Seung-jae is a serial child molester and murderer who managed to game the system and got off light with none of the people in the building knowing of his crime. Sang-wook was hired by a grieving father to take down Seung-jae when the apocalypse hit and was caught, separated from Seung-jae for a few episodes.
Now, Seung-jae is seemingly safe until...episode five rolls around and we get the true glimpses to his crime...Seung-jae's apartment is a darkroom where he's revealed to be an unholy monster, with the room covered with photos of his victims and brief flash backs...Seung-jae is a pedophile killer who molests the girls, takes photos of them and murders them with none of his neighbors the wiser...upon this discovery Seung-jae tries to murder him, with the two entering a fight, ending with Sang-wook getting the better of Seung-jae, smashing his skull in with a hammer and dragging his corpse outside the apartment for the monsters.
any mitigating factors?
This is a short EP because it doesn't need to be longer. His crimes are onscreen enough, he's a serial killer and rapist of little girls, and he's a remorseless sociopath shown cackling when he gets a light sentence. There's nothing else to this whatsoever. He's the worst human in series, bar none.
Conclusion
Yes.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Wheeler may be worse than Spellbinder, but is targeting children THAT common in the DCAU?
Also, Scraggle, this comic?
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Hwang
Evolution Requires Sacrifice.
to Hwang Seung-jae.
What about an EP for Superboy-Prime's disqualification?
"I SHALL UNIFY THE WORLD! FROM ALPHA TO OMEGA... BOW DOWN TO ME!!!"
Definite to Hwang
Woagh
to Hwang,
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I think "His creator redeemed him and killed him off, lol" is enough evidence, honestly.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Jan 29th 2021 at 11:11:01 AM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Don't know if that's needed. I agree with the cut.
Yes to Hwang. Dude not in the webcomic?
EDIT: Also, actually looking over the post, Spellbinder seems like a cut.
Edited by ACW on Jan 29th 2021 at 2:15:02 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Easy for Hwang
Cut Superboy-Prime, but considering how screwy DC and its continuity is, I wouldn't be surprised if this disqualification was itself disqualified at some point.
Now I can't help but wonder what this thread might've been like had it been around in The '90s:
"I know the Frieza Saga isn't finished yet, but Vegeta's an easy cut. He spends his final moments lamenting the death of his race and the fact that he never got a chance to be anything more than one of Frieza's thugs."
The Draftsman of Doom
Evolution Requires Sacrifice.
Cut Superboy-Prime, and he failed to meet the Heinous Standard.
"I SHALL UNIFY THE WORLD! FROM ALPHA TO OMEGA... BOW DOWN TO ME!!!"
Who failed to meet the heinous standard? Sorry, I'm confused.
I'm not doing an EP for a clear cut. It's a lot of time and energy to do them and if it's so clear?
This isn't like Sabretooth where he's bounced around writer to writer. Prime has largely been the character of Geoff Johns who's done this stupid will-he-won't-he redemption and settled on redeemed finally, much like when Ravok had the Purple Man cut.
As for the Sweet home Webcomic, I have genuinely no idea as I've never read it but I presume from the EP's there, Seung-jae is only in the show
Hwang
Not sure on Prime because I have no idea what the fuck is going on.
I recommend you ask mir, he done several webcomics like that before.
Edited by nwotyzal on Jan 29th 2021 at 11:29:57 AM
Welcome to the messy world of DC continuity. You'd probably have an easier time teaching yourself quantum mechanics.
Yes to Kark and Hwang. Cut Spellbinder and Superboy-Prime.
Yes to Lighty's and if it's that clear cut: he goes, don't ask for a 700-word post just because you want one. The disqualification is clear and obvious.
I never thought I'd be saying this, but cut Superboy-Prime
Yes to Hwang Seung-jae
Ultimate Moral Compass
Hwang
At risk of having my brain explode trying to make sense of a continuity that reboots every 3 seconds, I’ll just say cut him
spellbinder as well
Edited by nwotyzal on Jan 29th 2021 at 11:52:43 AM
Well, nobodies really gonna be upset with spellzy cut, so cut him I suppose.
Still, that's a pretty shitty Freudian Excuse.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Jan 29th 2021 at 11:03:38 AM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE