During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
A variety of reasons. She did little on her own that wasn't Ragyo's will in the end.
I know nothing about Nikita, either, I'm afraid.
As for Bejo, here's the scoop:
Bejo is a gangster int he film The Raid 2: Berandal and is known as a young up and comer in the Jakarta underworld. At the film's start, Bejo has a man executed via shotgun blast to the face while informing him the current boss, the pragmatic and relatively peaceful Bangun, is an old fool who needs to make room for new blood. Bejo gets in close with Bangun's son, the ambitious Uco, who suffers from severe feelings of inadequacy. He gives Uco a group of men to execute to solidify their partnership, one being a man who tried to murder Uco in prison. Bejo then manipulates Uco into killing one of the top members of his organization, Prakoso, who's been like an uncle to Uco. The purpose is to frame the Japanese mob and start a massive gang war.
Bejo, after P Rakoso's death, despite Bangun's wishes, enacts a bloody purge with his crack team of assassins that leaves many, many people dead, including civilians who get in the way. Bejo then usurps Bangun and manipulates Uco into committing patricide. It is also revealed Bejo was behind the attempted assassination of Uco as a ploy and fed Uco his own men to get him to trust and rely on him.
Bejo has the highest body count in The Raid series, and while most of his victims are criminals, he catches civilians in the crossfire and has no problem with the many, many dead bodies his planned gang war would create. He has zero honor and executes people who can't possibly fight back. The only reason Bejo himself doesn't get in on the action is he's physically disabled.
No issues with heinous standard, either. All the other villains are subordinate to his will (the assassins), are way too complex (Uco, who weeps when he kills his dad and can't even look him in the eye when he pulls the trigger) or not really awful, bloodthirsty people (Bangun, his right hand man Eka and the Japanese bosses)
Bejo has zero redeeming qualities. He's simply a greedy, ambitious social climbing gangster
edited 22nd Apr '14 10:35:28 AM by Lightysnake
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Ugh, we decided the Lich was NOT a GDV. Cut that.
As for Bejo (FINALLY an example I can comment on
) a tentative
as long as it's mentioned that he acted as The Corrupter for Uco wow, I'm reminded of Commodus. don't remember him killing innocents though.
Scratch that; Baseball Bat Dude killed an innocent or two (not Hammer Girl though).
edited 22nd Apr '14 12:11:07 PM by ACW
Although, to be fair, Hammer Girl DID wait until the innocents had cleared out (the other dudes were his bodyguards).
If this is Ramsay, a possible image for the GOT Monster page
◊.
And one for Whedonverse
◊
One for Berserk?
◊
Maybe that's what I'll do while taking a break from TV: Look for images for the pages without.
edited 22nd Apr '14 12:56:15 PM by ACW
Okay to swap out the old Sons Of Anarchy entries for the ones at Complete Monster Live Action TV? I tightened up Jimmy's a bit and modified Alice's.
Query about Marvel's Red King: He's listed as a CM, and from what I know about him (mostly from the animated adaptation) rightfully so, but then I came across an entry in Reformed, but Rejected that seems to imply he went through some kind of Heel–Face Turn. Is anyone here well-read enough to comment on that? Though I should note that he'd in all likelihood still qualify in the animated film no matter what happened in the comics.
I don't think he's even listed for the film (if he was, and qualifies, he needs to be added to Marvel Animation). As for Comic!King, if that's true, then he needs to be cut.
Dammit Lighty
edited 22nd Apr '14 3:26:08 PM by ACW
If we're looking for page images, I see that Star Wars is without one. I know he's not as bad as the Emperor, but would this pic of Durge
◊ work? Because I can think of very few pictures that so nicely demonstrate the trope.
Yeah, I was TRYING to find a good one of Palpatine. I mean, he is THE Star Wars villain. What about the one at Evil Is Hammy.
edited 22nd Apr '14 3:56:31 PM by ACW
The problem with Palpatine is that he mostly orders evil actions rather than flat out committing them himself. And swordfighting with Yoda or electrocuting Luke aren't really qualifiers, or at least won't look like it in an image. I like the one of Durge that I posted simply because he's a) standing over a corpse, and b) his dialogue in the image gives us a nice capsule summary of his personality.
Speaking of Durge, I think his entry needs work. Will offer a rewrite shortly.
edited 22nd Apr '14 3:56:27 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
Good point. Sure, Why Not?. BTW, if you rewrite him, please make sure to mention which comic he's from.
Oh, Ambar, thoughts on Moriarty? Please see HERE
.
edited 22nd Apr '14 4:22:44 PM by ACW
Wanted to submit a slightly altered write-up for the Lich that is up-to-date with his crimes, removes some previous errors from the old entry, and is shorter.
- The Lich from Adventure Time, is an Evil Sorcerer who desires nothing less than the extinction of all life. While most of the series' antagonists have sympathetic moments or funny quirks that add levity to their crimes, the Lich is the only villain to always be played absolutely seriously. His attempts at wiping out all life has included possessing Princess Bubblegum, going One-Winged Angel, and rampaging through the Candy Kingdom; killing and possessing the body of Billy as part of a complex gambit to get a Reality Warper to grant his wish for the extinction of all life across The Multiverse; murdering dream Prismo as well as Prismo's physical body, the latter solely For the Evulz, then breaking the universe's worst criminals our of their cosmic jail, all in order to create an unstoppable army for himself to lead in wiping out all life, one planet at a time. The Lich is also heavily implied to have been involved with the destruction of mankind and one of the reasons why the show takes place in a world After the End.
edited 22nd Apr '14 5:12:21 PM by OccasionalExister
@ACW
She never fell in love with Holmes. This was brought up back when we first discussed the character. She sees him as a work of art, and I quote "I appreciate art." As for her daughter, she seems more upset about the fact that somebody touched her daughter than that somebody touched her daughter if you get my meaning. Cutting that crap now.
Even then a lot of what he does is watching others commit atrocities. When he finally goes on the offensive himself it's in his giant tentacle monster form. We could always put up a picture of Wyald having sex with a girl, breaking her neck, and throwing her onto a pile of corpses (all of them women he was banging only minutes earlier). There is an image of that. Of course it might qualify as NSFW.
edited 22nd Apr '14 6:18:23 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
Tbh, I was never really sold on that Moriarty qualifying. It seemed to go against including characters who are still ongoing, she clearly has some attraction and affection for Holmes even if it is selfish and twisted, same goes for her daughter, and she doesn't even strike me as being as heinous as Jim Moriarty or the Moriarty played by Jared Harris.
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Other portrayals of the character do not matter. And she flat out admits that the only reason she's interested in Holmes is because she thinks of him in the same way that you or I would think of a work of art. As for her daughter, that's ambiguous as hell.
I'll also note that she was put up after the end of the first season, when we had no guarantees either way about whether she'd appear again. So no rules were violated, thanks all the same.
He was assaulting them, though.
Reading more on Moriarty makes her a definite
for me. Not only does the care for her daughter appear genuine, but her affection for Holmes appears deep enough that she tries some of his more moral methods such as not murdering her prison guard when she very well could have. It's out of curiosity rather than true morality, and she is still an awful person, but a villain can be that without being a CM. Furthermore, she COMPLETELY fails "not portrayed in any positive way" , "other characters fear and hate" , and "devoid of altruistic qualities" criteria since Holmes seems to relate to her enough to exchange letters with her, she shows altruism in her care for her daughter, and her relationships with both those characters is shown as semi-positive at points. You can argue that her care for her daughter is self centered, but so was Mother Gothel's and she got voted down from the trope, so... Yeah.
And I brought up the other versions just to compare. Not all Moriarty incarnations have to be a CM. Remember that this one is also Irene Adler, who's usually far from a CM. And while she thought of Holmes as art at first, it is entirely possible that her feelings could change over time.
edited 22nd Apr '14 7:47:35 PM by AnewMan

I just want to make sure:
Nui Harime was voted down on grounds of being relegated to a minor villain as soon as the true CM, Ragyo, shows up, right?
"They played us like a DAMN FIDDLE!" — Kazuhira Miller, Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain