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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#244301: Jan 17th 2021 at 1:05:58 PM

Okay, for my next one, from Equalizer! From the episode Unnatural Causes, I give you the Orchid killer.

Who is the Orchid Killer?

A serial killer has gripped the streets, targeting lonely, middle-aged women. The killer finds them over dating agencies and when he goes to see them, brings with him a rope that he strangles them with. One of the victims is a friend of Robert McCall...and we see a few victim for this one. The opening is a woman accepting him into her apartment, only to be murdered promptly with the killer having an MO: leaving an orchid at the sign of a victim.

Now, this is kind of the b-plot of the episode as McCall is also defending a young aspiring actress who's fallen afoul of a nasty Pimp who wants her to be his new girl. McCall? For him it's personal and investigating he begins to narrow down the list that women had used for the dating agencies. Now, the killer is a man named Mr. Goodheart and we later see him ambush another woman in the library for researching him, throttling her to death and leaving another orchid. Oh, and did I mention there's a substantial victim count? Because there is.

Now, McCall has his friend Kelly pose as a woman seeking a date until he finds the man the women had in common....she poses out for a date and contacts Goodheart, who is seen snipping an orchid from his plant...Goodheart arrives to murder her, and the other plot has McCall tied up, but our hero gets free and manages to crash Goodheart's plans, who goes on a misogynist rant as he's taken down and arrested.

Mitigating issues?

Nothing good to say about Goodheart who may damn well be the most ironically named candidate I've ever proposed. He's a misogynist scumbag targeting lonely middle aged women with a huge body count, more than most killers on the show and without any of the insanity disqualifiers that hurt the others here.

Conclusion?

Easy keep.

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#244303: Jan 17th 2021 at 1:15:56 PM

And my last Equalizer...from the 4th episode of the series, The Lock Box: Francis DeGraumont

Who is Francis De Graumont?

Adam Ant who keeps turning up in the weirdest roles for CM here. A scummy pimp and sex slaver with diplomatic ties (DeGraumont and not Adam Ant, who I am sure is a lovely human being, diplomatic ties or not) who is shown with a young woman at the start of the episode. Luring her into his car, DeGraumont drives off with her, where his business is soon revealed: DeGraumont runs a very high end, 'invitation only' brothel where he helps government intelligent gain blackmail material on foreign agents and diplomats. The catch? DeGraumont doesn't care if the girls are willing and is more than happy to kidnap them for it. The girls are set in the brothel to be raped and abused, as is our victim of the week who DeGraumont offers to one such client to do whatever he wants as long as he doesn't bruise her face.

Now, McCall, of course, is hired by the girl's parents to head out and deal with this...he's set on a cloak and dagger trail while DeGraumont continues to run the brothel, continuing to have the girls abused as McCall is forced to try to gain and invitation with the proper undercover action. Of course, upon arrival, DeGraumont is exposed by McCall who corners him, but DeGraumont surrenders with his trademark arrogance. The girl is rescued after the abuse, but....DeGraumont's handlers arrange for his release and to fly him out of the country. The girl's father snaps and goes after him on the way to a flight as McCall arrives to stop a tragedy...DeGraumont calmly decides to murder him even after he's disarmed in "self defense." McCall? Takes out a knife and flings it into DeGraumont's heart, shocking him for the first time and dropping him for good.

Mitigating Issues?

God, no. Sex slavers are super rare in this show, and our villain of the week here is one of the worst of the lot. He's just a sociopath who works for intelligence, having women abused, kidnapping them to have them raped so he can gain blackmail material. He's completely blase about it, treating it as no big deal at all.

There's nothing more to say about this one, hes as clearcut a keeper as can be imagined.

Conclusion?

Yes to the...third CM for Adam Ant? Not a sentence I ever expected to write, but here we are.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#244304: Jan 17th 2021 at 1:16:04 PM

[tup] Gallinus, Goodheart, and Francis

Edited by therealjackieboy on Jan 17th 2021 at 1:16:35 AM

It's Spooky Month!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#244305: Jan 17th 2021 at 1:17:40 PM

Not sure about Better to Die than Be Killed for Leland; seems like better to die than be arrested, though I don't know if that's a trope.

Yes to Goodheart. Played by Kevin Geer, who played Brian Egan; not a CM himself, but manipulated by one.

EDIT: Yes to DeGraumont too.

Edited by ACW on Jan 17th 2021 at 4:22:02 AM

Tvtropesfan234 Since: Nov, 2019
#244306: Jan 17th 2021 at 1:19:20 PM

[tup] to Francis and Goodheart

Edited by Tvtropesfan234 on Jan 17th 2021 at 1:19:30 AM

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#244308: Jan 17th 2021 at 1:23:47 PM

[tup]Francis and Goodheart.

[up][up][up]Says this on The trope page. A situation where a character commits suicide rather than face capture, imminent death, enslavement, public humiliation followed by (possibly grisly) execution, or something even worse.

Apparently it doesn't require death per say.

Edited by miraculous on Jan 17th 2021 at 1:24:09 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#244309: Jan 17th 2021 at 1:25:53 PM

[tup] to francis and goodheart

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#244310: Jan 17th 2021 at 1:32:10 PM

[tup] Goodheart and DeGraumont.
[down][down] Sorry to hear that. Hope she recovers.

Edited by CloisterTheStupid on Jan 17th 2021 at 10:31:04 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#244311: Jan 17th 2021 at 1:36:07 PM

[up][up][up] I stand corrected. I'll use it then.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#244312: Jan 17th 2021 at 1:44:00 PM

Yes to the Orchid Killer.

Also I just a call. My mom in the hospital after a car crash. So I might be gone for a bit.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#244313: Jan 17th 2021 at 1:48:14 PM

Sorry about that Bull.

Hope she's okay.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#244314: Jan 17th 2021 at 1:48:25 PM

[up][up] My condolences. Take all the time you need.

Outside of that though, I have a issue with this bit in bold on the Schindler's List YMMV page.

  • Complete Monster: SS officer Amon Goeth is in charge of liquidating the Krakow Jewish ghetto, and is later in charge of the Plaszow concentration camp. When a Jewish forewoman (who has a degree in structural engineering) protests the structure they are building is unsound, Goeth has her killed for raising her opinion, only to follow her instruction to improve the structure. Tormenting his prisoners for his amusement, Goeth shoots them from his quarters with a sniper rifle for sport; kills 25 in anger for one escaping; and laughs at the crying parents of children he sends off to the gas chambers. Subverting any chance at humanity he is given, when Oskar Schindler tries to convince him to show mercy, Goeth briefly considers sparing a Jewish boy who failed to clean spots from his bathtub before killing him; and finding himself attracted to a Jewish woman, decides to blame her for his own lust and savagely beats her. Possibly the most horrifying thing about him is that the real-life man was WORSE.

We don't consider real life people to be a Complete Monster and it's not possible to be worse than a Complete Monster. May I request to delete that?

Edited by ReynTime250 on Jan 17th 2021 at 9:48:43 AM

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#244315: Jan 17th 2021 at 1:49:11 PM

[tup] to the Orchid Killer/Mr. Goodheart and Francis DeGraumont.

[up][up][up] My sincerest condolences for that tragedy. Take all the time you need and I hope that your mother can recover from this accident swiftly and without trouble.

[up] If I recall correctly, that part wasn't even authorized to be added to the original entry, so you can delete that part.

Edited by DrUnknown on Jan 17th 2021 at 1:50:03 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#244316: Jan 17th 2021 at 1:49:53 PM

[up][up]Cut That part.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MalleoWeegee Evolution Requires Sacrifice. from Eurasia Since: Apr, 2020 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Evolution Requires Sacrifice.
#244317: Jan 17th 2021 at 1:56:06 PM

[tup] to Gallinus, Goodheart, and Francis. Hope your mom gets better, Bullsman.

EDIT: And, can we just rechange the pothole for King Boo from Vile Villain, Saccharine Show back to Big Bad? And I also removed the unapproved last section of Dimentio's writeup: A sadistic, psychopathic, and omnicidal madman, Dimentio stands out among Mario villains as one of the worst of the worst.

Edited by MalleoWeegee on Jan 17th 2021 at 4:59:33 AM

"I SHALL UNIFY THE WORLD! FROM ALPHA TO OMEGA... BOW DOWN TO ME!!!"
Tvtropesfan234 Since: Nov, 2019
#244318: Jan 17th 2021 at 1:56:37 PM

@Bullman: Dang. Sorry to hear about that. Hope she gets better.

Tvtropesfan234 Since: Nov, 2019
#244319: Jan 17th 2021 at 1:57:14 PM

[up][up] yes we can.

Edited by Tvtropesfan234 on Jan 17th 2021 at 1:58:08 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#244320: Jan 17th 2021 at 2:13:31 PM

I am heading off to the hospital now. See you guys in hopefully a few days or when ever I return.

Edited by Bullman on Jan 17th 2021 at 4:14:14 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
MalleoWeegee Evolution Requires Sacrifice. from Eurasia Since: Apr, 2020 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#244322: Jan 17th 2021 at 2:19:24 PM

[up][up] hope she'll end up okay, deepest regards.

[tup]Equalizer duo

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#244323: Jan 17th 2021 at 2:27:04 PM

[tup] to Gallinus, Goodheart, and Francis

My Condolences Bull

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#244325: Jan 17th 2021 at 3:12:09 PM

[tup] Lighty’s candidates.

That sucks, Bull, and you have my full support. Hope and pray she pulls through.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.

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