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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#243801: Jan 13th 2021 at 2:47:37 PM

'Yes' to Zack

Foley's one of my old ones, simple fix:

Current:

  • When the infamous Serial Killer Daryll Lee Cullum coerced Peter Foley to kill his arch-nemesis, Dr. Helen Hudson, Foley decided to use the opportunity to make himself a "legend." Foley began killing people in ways reminiscent of serial killers of the past, from The Boston Strangler to The Son of Sam, murdering numerous women throughout the film. When the police locate Foley after he killed Helen's best friend, Andy, Foley murders his own wife and tries to blow up dozens of police officers while they search his house. Kidnapping Helen, Foley reenacts her traumatizing experience at the hands of Cullum, hanging her by a noose and killing a police officer, planning to torture her to death. In the end, when an officer gives him the chance to surrender, Foley still attempts to gun her down. Obsessed with the idea that killing would bring him fame, Peter Foley was a disturbing combination of narcissism mixed with a Lack of Empathy.

Rewrite:

  • Peter Foley, obsessed with his own fame and ego, accepts a mission by infamous Serial Killer Daryll Lee Cullum to kill his arch-nemesis, Dr. Helen Hudson, so as to use the opportunity to make himself a legend. Foley began killing people in ways reminiscent of serial killers of the past, from The Boston Strangler to The Son of Sam, murdering numerous women throughout the film. When the police locate Foley after he killed Helen's best friend, Andy, Foley murders his own wife and tries to blow up dozens of police officers while they search his house. Kidnapping Helen, Foley reenacts her traumatizing experience at the hands of Cullum, hanging her by a noose and killing a police officer, planning to torture her to death. In the end, when an officer gives him the chance to surrender, Foley still attempts to gun her down.

EDIT: Sky's edit is also serviceable, so folks can just decide which they prefer and we'll get them adjusted.

Edited by Ravok on Jan 13th 2021 at 3:11:17 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#243802: Jan 13th 2021 at 2:52:26 PM

Speaking of which, there was this entry (I forgot the work) that I think was in either Live Action films or TV, which opened with ([name of the main character] meets [CM] in episode whatever), which had me thinking the MC was the candidate. I’ll look for it, but does anyone remember the entry in question?

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#243803: Jan 13th 2021 at 2:56:51 PM

[up] I don't remember seeing anything of the sort.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#243805: Jan 13th 2021 at 2:59:12 PM

Just use Rav's... I'm digging the flow and it's his originally.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#243806: Jan 13th 2021 at 3:03:49 PM

Ravok, please add to the Drafts. Also, I'd use Jack the Ripoff for his name (Attention Whore is encompassed bu Fame Through Infamy).

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#243807: Jan 13th 2021 at 3:07:07 PM

I'll go with Ravok's

[up]Foley is even the page image for Jack the Ripoff too

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#243808: Jan 13th 2021 at 3:10:50 PM

Ravok's rewrite works perfectly. Thanks for being open to suggestions, though, Rav.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jan 13th 2021 at 6:11:18 AM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#243809: Jan 13th 2021 at 3:12:26 PM

@ACW: Done with both

@Sky: Thank you for the suggestions!

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#243810: Jan 13th 2021 at 3:13:44 PM

To clarify, Hudson is Cullum's rival, not Foley's right?

Come to think of it, could Cullum himself count?

Edited by ACW on Jan 13th 2021 at 6:14:31 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#243811: Jan 13th 2021 at 3:18:13 PM

@nwotyzal: That’s the one.

This is the entry:

  • Jack Tenrec meets his old friend and rival, Sean Russel. Russel sabotages Tenrec's car and steals a helicopter engine from him. He uses his new helicopter to go to the home of the Grith, a race of peaceful sapient lizard creatures who communicate through telepathy, and steals the life stone, a gem they need to survive. Russel uses the stone to summon several dinosaurs to a valley. Russel captures Tenrec and says he invited Hammer Terhune and his brothers to come and slaughter both the dinosaurs and the Grith, planning to sell their meat and bones on the black market. Tenrec lectures Russel about selling out the Grith to make a profit and Russel seems to briefly feel guilty over it, but quickly decides he cares far more about money then his old beliefs and continues with his genocidal scheme.

So yeah, the way the entry is written made we think that Jack was the CM at first. Have not seen the work, so I don’t think I’ll do a good job rewriting this. Can anyone help?

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#243812: Jan 13th 2021 at 3:20:02 PM

This may work:

  • "Duel": Sean Russel is Jack Tenrac's old friend and rival. Russel sabotages Tenrac's car and steals a helicopter engine from him. He uses his new helicopter to go to the home of the Grith, a race of peaceful sapient lizard creatures who communicate through telepathy, and steals the life stone, a gem they need to survive. Russel uses the stone to summon several dinosaurs to a valley. Russel captures Tenrac and says he invited Hammer Terhune and his brothers to come and slaughter both the dinosaurs and the Grith, planning to sell their meat and bones on the black market. Tenrac lectures Russel about selling out the Grith to make a profit and Russel seems to briefly feel guilty over it, but quickly decides he cares far more about money then his old beliefs and continues with his genocidal scheme.

I changed False Friend to Evil Former Friend.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#243813: Jan 13th 2021 at 3:20:31 PM

That works.

By the way, thanks nwot.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#243815: Jan 13th 2021 at 4:17:19 PM

@ACW: Cullum is Hudson's archenemy, yep! Cullum's honestly one I been wanting to revisit as a potential, he's not in the movie much buuuuut Cullum's also a nasty fellow himself even versus Foley, so I might talk about him tonight.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#243816: Jan 13th 2021 at 4:39:32 PM

Fully adding all of my support to a Foley rewrite.

Alright, I've got two more Legends candidates and maybe Granny Goodness to slash off before I return to semi-dormancy in this thread, and one series I'm taking with Lighty.

What's the setting?

The Equalizer is a famous crime drama about the efforts of one Robert McCall, an enigmatic detective with a shady past who, to atone for his actions under the shady branch of the US government he used to work for, atones by offering his services to those in need as "the Equalizer." Given this show is gonna be rebooted in a month from now (with a Gender Flip version of McCall played by...Queen Latifah? Huh?) it seems only appropriate to dig up a few from the series.

Hurting children was the one surefire way to get on McCall's nerves. The otherwise genial, professional detective flew into outright rages when it was the lives of children being harmed, and in season 2's "A Place to Stay" we get a duo who exemplify this harm.

Who are Mr. Griswald and Peter Marstand? What have they done?

Peter Marstand is the CEO of a big magazine retailer. He's wealthy, influential, holds ritzy parties for the upper class, and he's also a pedophile. Griswald, his dragon, is a piece of shit that congealed from the sewers of Times Square to start wandering the streets looking for runaways to exploit. Together these two have cornered a very, disturbingly lucrative market in child pornography.

Griswald lures in young runaways, such as the Victim of the Week Lynn Rowan, a thirteen-year-old girl who falls into Griswald's hands at the suggestion of a street prostitute named Judy. Griswald grooms his victims into posing for photos ostensibly for a legal catalog, only to begin manipulating them into more exploitative photography and eventually full-on pornography. Griswald takes an ungodly delight in corrupting the innocence of children, eventually getting them onto the streets as prostitutes. The show does not downplay, whatsoever, the horror of being a sex worker in New York; not long after Judy is found having brutally been murdered by one of her johns, we learn she was a former runaway child herself whom Griswald groomed into becoming a prostitute. When Marstand tells Griswald to hurry up and get Lynn into something more revealing, Griswald tells him to calm now; he wants to take all the time he can cultivating and exploiting that "innocent look."

Marstand isn't any better, distributing the pornography that Griswald films to underground buyers. Marstand also gets into bed with the kids himself, regularly—McCall passes along a bunch of pictures at one of Marstand's parties of one of his previous "sessions" before erupting into a rage seldom seen prior in the show. McCall passes off Marstand (and Griswald) to the police, but tells Marstand that if he should somehow slip out of their net, he'll be there for Marstand instead—and he won't like what comes next.

Any mitigating factors?

Child porn-peddling pedophiles and groomers don't exactly tend to have many of these in a show as eclectic in its crimes as Equalizer and they're not pretending it's anything but a special kind of evil. Even a mass-murdering terrorist got a one-off line indicating he was still haunted by his father's suicide. There's one other major sex slaver (played by, of all people, Adam Ant) Lighty will get, but for all 88 episodes of the show, these two were as bad as it got. Nothing is done to downplay the horrible realism of what's being portrayed here and McCall especially reacts to it with a visceral intensity almost never seen in the series.

Conclusion?

Do I even need to say it?

Edited by Scraggle on Jan 13th 2021 at 5:40:34 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#243817: Jan 13th 2021 at 4:40:49 PM

[tup]Marsten and Griswald

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#243820: Jan 13th 2021 at 4:58:44 PM

[tup] Griswald & Marstand

It's Spooky Month!
ASghhrv6ub Best Smile from Second star to the right. Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Best Smile
#243821: Jan 13th 2021 at 5:02:10 PM

Condolences to G's uncle

[tup]Jason Jr., Zack, Griswald and Marstand, and Foley's rewritte [tdown]Aztec God

The Beldam is a clear kept in both versions, but both versions are too similar, the entries of literature and animated films are the same, so since I understant that we try to avoid do entries to adaptions or fanfics characters that are too similar to their original versions, we could cut her animated films entry, and change her literature entry to explain that also applies to the animated adaptation.

I booked a Gumball fanfic named The Traveller, but I quit about it, because it looks to going to be a Dead Fic, the reason why I am publishing this here instead just delete it in the page because maybe somebody here knows the creator, and can confirm if he will continue the story.

And again, somebody has votes for this?

Edited by ASghhrv6ub on Jan 13th 2021 at 8:07:35 AM

I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me Blaine
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#243823: Jan 13th 2021 at 5:25:00 PM

[tup]Equalizer duo

so here's what I got about that DC & Marvel thing (and one Valiant thing)

DC Universe

Examples from Films can be found here specifically  ;here specifically ; and here specifically 

Examples from the Titansverse can be found here

Marvel Universe

Examples from non MCU Films can be found here specifically ; here specifically ; here specifically 

Examples from non MCU TV Series can be found here specifically ; here specifically 

Valiant Comics

Examples from Bloodshot (2020) can be found here

Tell me if I'm missing anything

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#243824: Jan 13th 2021 at 5:27:44 PM

[tup] Equalizer duo.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Smiley100P Since: Sep, 2017
#243825: Jan 13th 2021 at 5:28:34 PM

[tup]Griswald.
Also, the false entry of Dream (that I removed after making sure he wasn't approved) managed to remind me of an interaction with Schlatt that came up after his entry was written (and genuinely didn't expect, as his tenure as a villain was over for two months before writing his EP). Basically, the interaction took place just after Philza tried to resurrect Wilbur by recreating his final death scene poorly (long story), but not only did it backfire but Schlatt reappeared with a disembodied voice, seemingly against his own will because he complained he was masturbating right before he was unintentionally summoned, before saying he didn't want to come back to the server and he just wants to stay dead and disappearing, leaving Wilbur behind as a ghost. The whole interaction was played for laughs and Schlatt was mostly apathetic to his summoners. He couldn't really harm anyone in the state he was in, but at the same time he didn't want to either. Should we keep him or cut him based on this interaction? I genuinely don't know what to make of it.
(Edit: Changed some wording and the source of the external link.)

Edited by Smiley100P on Jan 13th 2021 at 5:34:53 AM


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