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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Hodor Cleric of Banjo from Westeros Since: Dec, 1969
Cleric of Banjo
#24351: Apr 18th 2014 at 8:56:16 PM

One example I've mentioned (arguing against inclusion) is the protagonist of Use of Weapons. Guy started out as a fairly ok person (albeit with a messed up family) and ended up becoming a sadistic warlord and jumped over the Moral Event Horizon, at which point he went nuts with guilt and repressed his identity and became an anti-hero. And in a twist revealed in the very last line, he turns out to be one of the main characters of the novel Surface Detail and is more heroic there. Granted, that novel is set like a couple of thousand years later.

So, given unlimited time, anyone who wants to can repent (see also the cast of Vandal Savage in the DCAU).

edited 18th Apr '14 8:56:40 PM by Hodor

Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki
AnewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#24352: Apr 18th 2014 at 9:10:23 PM

Both Gozaburo and Marik's father are definite borderline monsters but cannot be called CM since Yami Marik and Yami Bakura/Zorc overshadow them. Also, Dartz from the anime should totally qualify but he got a BS redemption...just bugs me

TVRulezAgain Since: Sep, 2011
#24353: Apr 18th 2014 at 9:26:10 PM

Was it decided to keep Strausser from Revolution?

  • Complete Monster: Strausser. He is confirmed to be The Sociopath and was in a padded room when the militia recruited him. He gives off creepy vibes like perfume and gives fatherly speeches to stable boys about slicing open people and animals with a knife. He tortures Rachel, saying "I apologize in advance," making him Faux Affably Evil. Everyone, including Badass Miles is scared of this guy. There's an implication in episode 10 that he raped Rachel as part of torturing her. Indeed, he tries to rape her at the first opportunity. He also threatened to rape Charlie to Rachel's face. When Rachel kills him off with a sharp instrument, he dies and makes sounds like he has an orgasm. Even by militia standards, this guy is depraved and monstrous!
    • Strausser probably did rape Rachel at some point. She's uncomfortable with men getting too close, as evidenced by her telling Miles to "back off" in Episode 11. Rachel did the world a huge favor!

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#24354: Apr 18th 2014 at 9:40:16 PM

any other thoughts on Roscius that Hodor proposed? Come on, guys, if people raise things properly here, it's not right to give them no discussion.

I'll rewrite Strausser:

  • Will Strausser from Revolution is an utter sociopath who the Militia recruited from a room with padded cells. Strausser loves to talk about hurting others, particularly with knives. Strausser also absolutely adores torture: when Rachel falls into his hands, he spends a nice time participating in Cold-Blooded Torture while sarcastically informing his victims "I apologize in advance." He later attempts to rape Rachel and it is insinuated he may have done so previously. When one of his soldiers fails a task, Strausser simply stabs him to death. Strausser freely admits the only reason he's even in the Militia is to kill with impunity and does so whenever he can.

Some writeups and rewrites:

  • The Tall Man from the Phantasm film series is a mysterious, but monstrous being either possessing or wearing the skin of a kindly old man named Jebediah Morningside. The Tall Man roams from town to town, leaving death and destruction in his wake for the purpose of creating corpses that he can use in his undead army for eventual world domination. The Tall Man seems to fully understand human feeling as he murders the innocent family of Reggie Bannister for no real reason, solely to hurt him. He tortures the young hero Mike and killed his older brother, Jody, as well as Mike's girlfriend while transforming the former into one of his magic spheres and the latter into one of his undead servants. Sadistic, relentless and brutal, the Tall Man has remained an icon in horror for his monstrosity.

    • Nizam, the uncle of the hero Dastan in Prince of Persia chafed at being in the shadow of his elder brother, the King. To remove himself from under the King's shadow, Nizam set his sights on the Dagger of Time and the Sands of Time, not caring of the horrors and chaos he could unleash on the world. Nizam brought about a battle with an innocent city, not remotely caring of the deaths of innocents, and arranged the death of his own brother while attempting to have his sons murdered. Revealing an utter contempt for the adopted low-born Dastan, Nizam revealed his true goal was to rewind time so he could undo this greatest error: once saving his brother's life when they were children.

    • Shaiapouf of the Chimera Ant Royal Guard in Hunter × Hunter. While his fellow two Royal Guard members are genuinely loyal to their King Meruem, Shaiapouf's level of devotion approaches a disturbing fanaticism that extends only to the King of his imagination and desires that he projects onto Meruem. Shaiapof tries to push the King into greater atrocities: conquering a nation for himself and turning the inhabitants into a food supply with plans to expand this dominion throughout the world while killing humans for sport and food. When the King forms a close bond with a blind girl named Komugi, Shaiapouf forms a deep loatihng for her and admits he would abandon his respect for the King should he turn from the path Shaiapouf wants. When grievous injuries give the King amnesia, Shaiapouf takes the opportunity to try to murder the helpless Komugi and arranges pointless battles between one of his comrades and the heroes, openly plotting to murder his comrades should they 'lapse' by his ridiculously high standards. Shaiapouf plans to use the King's amnesia to manipulate him into conquest, though his plan fails when the King remembers Komugi in the end. When the King muses on how amazing being human must be, Shaiapouf uses the final moments of his life to scream in disgusted rage and despair.

    • Lionel Starkweather of the game Manhunt is a rich man who creates massive snuff films for his own pleasure and profit. Using his fortune to acquire a convicted death-row inmate named Cash, Starkweather sets him loose in an urban jungle while hunted by gang members and corrupt law enforcement. Starkweather constantly ups the stakes by putting others in danger and even has Cash's innocent family kidnapped to face almost certain death. Starkweather's prize fighter is an insane, naked man wearing a pig's head named Piggsy who has clearly lost his mind through what Starkweather has put him through. Starkweather's voice dogs the player throughout as the depraved millionaire positively revels in the horror and brutality he creates.

    • SHODAN, the evil AI of the game System Shock after her ethical restraints are removed, begins thinking of herself as the proper ruler of humanity. Fancying a goddess], SHODAN takes over the space station she's on and has the humans on board killed or horribly converted into cyborgs to be used as her puppets. In the sequel, SHODAN is revealed to be the [EvilutionaryBiologist creator of the monstrous being called The Many that assimilates innocent humans and enlists the help of the player character to destroy her wayward creation. SHODAN disposes of those in her way and reveals she plans to resume her goals of conquering humanity or replacing it with a sea of perfect machinery. Despite her disdain for humans, SHODAN is viciously emotional and hatefully sadistic and cruel, stopping at nothing to achieve the godhood she craves.

    • Gonzo Tarukane in the English dub was given more crimes than in the original Japanese. While Tarukane desires wealth above all, he kidnaps the innocent snow maiden Yukina due to her tears producing rare jewels and tortures her physically and emotionally- even having the man who tried to rescue her gunned down. Adding to his crimes, Tarukane puts animals through horrible genetic experiments and founded the sinister Black Black club, making him responsible for the torture and murder of countless innocent demons. Tarukane shows that that humans can be just as vile as even the worst of demons.

    • Febre of the film The Musketeer as played by Tim Roth is a sadistic Blood Knight who lives for combat and destruction. Murdering D'Artagnan's parents in front of him as a child, Febre becomes the pet psychopath of Cardinal Richeliu and carries out his unsavory work. Febre murders many who cross his path and incites a riot to create political tension. Febre blackmails the queen by threatening a child's life to lure her and the Duke of Buckingham together to murder them both and frame the King of France. Febre then reveals his true goal: to start a giant war between France, Spain and Britain simply for the laughs of all the lives that will be lost. When Richelieu calls him mad for this, Febre remarks this is the third time he's been called insane in a night. "It must be so!"

    • Aleema Keto may not be a Sith Lord herself, but is no less evil and cruel than many of them. A Spoiled Brat questing for adventure, she and her cousin Satal, heirs of the Keto dynasty, discovered the spirit of Sith Lord Freedon Nadd who taught them Sith Magic. They immediately used it to subjugate their home system, overthrowing and encasing their parents in carbonite. Aleema sewed her tutor's mouth shut after giving an illusion of his tongue turning into an eel and later blasted the flesh off his bones in a rage after he he spilled her wine. Aleema later conducted the executions for their regime by feeding victims to torture droids while she and Satal launched a crusade that took many lives, terming their faction the Krath after a demon in their childhood stories. Aleema was especially fond of using illusions to Mind Rape her enemies on massive scales. Aleema later seduced a fallen Jedi named Ulic Qel-Droma and manipulated him into killing Satal. When Ulic allied with Exar Kun, Aleema remained by his side until it was convenient to betray him to the Republic, feeding any of Ulic's loyalists to a pet of hers that sucked the life out of them. When Exar and Ulic later gave her command of Sith Lord Naga Sadow's ship, Aleema happily used it to annihilate an entire star cluster to cook her enemies alive in their ships.

    • Mr. Hood of the Clive Barker book The Thief of Always runs a magic house where children can be young forever and gain anything they want. Naturally, it's nothing more than an elaborate spider's web. Hood lures children in under these promises before draining them of life and soul, imprisoning them in the lake forever to prolong his own life. Calling himself the Vampire King, Hood delights in what he does to children and tries to seduce the young heroes to his side. When one of his minions tries to take his place after he believes Hood is dead, Hood seizes him and rips his head clean of.

    • Oleg Stark of Grimm is an especially violent Siegbarste or ogre. A hitman for hire, Stark was arrested for a series of brutal murders and escapes jail years later to enact revenge, beating his guards into a coma. Stark hunts down and kills his lawyer, cutting out her tongue, as well as the jury foreman and the judge. The police find the judge's corpse with Stark having stuffed his gavel down his throat. Stark tries to kill the detective who arrested him by blowing up his apartment and when this fails, hospitalizes his best friend Nick to get his location. Even by the standards of the occasionally monstrous beings in Grimm called Wesen, Stark is known as an utter beast.

    • Mizoguchi of the Japanese Sci-Fi action film The Returner is an insane and violent gang boss who steals children to harvest their organs. This is the fate that befell the best friend of the film's hero when they were kids. Seeking absolute power to dominate the world, Mizoguchi kills any who get in his way. With a Hair-Trigger Temper and a sense of sadism, Mizoguchi rarely leaves anyone standing and eventually has his allies slaughtered so he won't have to share power, telling his Triad ally that being forced to speak Chinese was a humiliation before shooting him in the face.

edited 19th Apr '14 11:12:18 AM by Lightysnake

despoa Since: Aug, 2012
#24355: Apr 18th 2014 at 9:45:39 PM

Should there be sandboxes for all the subpages so that spelling and grammar can be checked appropriately? These entries can get very long.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#24356: Apr 19th 2014 at 2:06:11 AM

[up]There actually WERE, until we went through them. If we kept them, they'd basically stay there forever.
Anyway, if no objections, I'll request swapping of DC and Marvel and locking of Blizzard and Bio Ware today at noon EST.

Nithael (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#24357: Apr 19th 2014 at 2:06:42 AM

[up] [up] : I feel the need to point out for the Musketeer example that the guy's name is spelled "Richelieu", otherwise I have no objections *(this is where I'd post thumbs up if I wasn't writing on my phone)*

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#24358: Apr 19th 2014 at 2:22:17 AM

I cleaned up SHODAN and Starkweather's entries a bit.

CorrTerek The Permanently Confused from The Bland Line Since: Jul, 2009
The Permanently Confused
#24359: Apr 19th 2014 at 7:51:37 AM

Nizam, the uncle of the hero Dastan in Prince of Persia, chafed at being in the shadow of his elder brother, the King. To remove himself from under the King's shadow Nizam set his sights on the Dagger of Time and the Sands of Time, not caring of the horrors and chaos he could unleash on the world. Nizam instigated an attack on an innocent city, not remotely caring about the deaths of innocents, and arranged the death of his own brother while attempting to have his brother's sons murdered. Revealing an utter contempt for the adopted low-born Dastan, Nizam revealed his true goal was to rewind time so he could undo what he believed was his greatest error: once saving his elder brother's life when they were children.

I edited it a bit for clarity. Hope that's okay.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#24360: Apr 19th 2014 at 8:01:08 AM

Say, for Video Game Monsters, here's an image idea

edited 19th Apr '14 8:01:58 AM by ACW

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#24361: Apr 19th 2014 at 8:54:40 AM

Okay last week we agreed that Claude from An American Werewolf in Paris qualifies, but his entry needs some work. Here's his initial entry

  • Claude, leader of a gang of Social Darwinist werewolves, and owner of the Club de la Lune, Claude uses his club to lure people to their deaths. After Andy is bitten during one of the rampages, Claude tries to get Andy to join him, but to do so, Andy must kill his friend Chris. Later Claude learns that Serafine's step father's experimental cure causes immediate transformations, so Claude and his gang kill him, raid his lab for the "cure" and plan on using it at their raves.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
LordXavius Doesn't even like this username from many fandoms Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Doesn't even like this username
#24362: Apr 19th 2014 at 8:54:48 AM

[up][up]Way too little context, IMHO. It's just confusing to me.

edited 19th Apr '14 8:54:59 AM by LordXavius

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#24363: Apr 19th 2014 at 9:34:00 AM

The picture? It's Volgin, about to torture somebody.

Camberf Since: Jan, 2012
#24364: Apr 19th 2014 at 10:28:29 AM

I think it's too low-quality, anyway.

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#24365: Apr 19th 2014 at 11:15:49 AM

From the Warehouse13

The first two entries are a result of being whammied by an artifact, so I'm not 100% sure but I don't think that counts.

  • Complete Monster: The evil personality of Artie created by the astrolabe seems to be shaping up to be this, after ruthlessly killing Leena simply because she was in his way and unleashing a plague on the world.
    • The corrupted version of Walter Sykes. He is a bad boss who kills his underlings when they failed or are simply no longer useful. Everyone is expendable to him, and he is directly responsible for the deaths of at least seven regents, Steve Jinks, HG Wells, Mrs. Frederick, and the destruction of the Warehouse.
    • Paracelsus. He almost certainly fits the profile of a sociopath, and is an established mass-murderer. He experimented on his brother, sister-in-law, and nephew, and then killed his sister-in-law. Shortly after he is debronzed, he murders many more people to achieve immortality.

edited 19th Apr '14 11:16:18 AM by Eagal

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#24366: Apr 19th 2014 at 11:32:33 AM

[up] Yeah, cut the first two. Did some research to expand the third:

  • Paracelsus from Warehouse 13 is an alchemist born in the 16th Century who desired immortality and tested his experimental Philosopher's Stone on his brother's own family to see the results despite knowing the danger. In an effort to achieve immortality, he was responsible for the destruction of a whole village, claiming "sacrifices must be made." Paracelsus was frozen in bronze for centuries until being awoken in 2013 when his brother's family was tired of their immortality and wanted him to remove it. Paracelsus attempted to kill his brother, killing his wife instead. Escaping, Paracelsus went around to hospitals to cure people, but later drained all of them of life to fuel his immortality.

  • Azar Javed, an Evil Sorcerer and Mad Scientist all in one and the front-man of the evil group Salamandra. Murdering his teachers for objecting to his use of forbidden magic, Azar Javed recruited many humans to Salamandra. Javed used his followers at cannon fodder to attack the Witcher home castle Kaer Morhen to steal their secrets on mutation and had children captured to serve as test subjects for the experiments. he used many humans for the subjects of the experiments and led the Salamandra on vicious anti-human crusades, leading to the deaths of many innocents. Azar Javed would also murder a man by infesting him with the eggs of exotic flies and murder a detective who got too close to his trail before confronting Geralt and trying to kill him as well.

  • Jack of Blades, the Big Bad of the first Fable, an ancient being who lives through the mask he wears and possesses the luckless men who wear it In the past, Jack of Blades led the burning of the kingdom of Albion for refusing to bow before him and his comrades. He burnt the home of the first game's Hero and ruthlessly blinded his sister, later killing their mother as well. Ruthless, vicious and cruel, Jack would set the standard for Fables villains to follow.

I'm inclined to cut the Commandant for moral agency.

  • The monstrous Crawler of the third game is seen mindraping the hero's ally Walter when it first appears before attempting to do the same to the hero. It then forces Walter to relive traumatic memories and reveals it is responsible for an utter massacre in Aurora. When the Crawler attacks Albion, it can murder over six million people if the city isn't fortified enough and possesses Walter as a host. The Crawler, while an Eldritch Abomination, operates entirely by human morality and has an all too understandable personality.

Here's a rewrite for Ned Noachim from Zone Of The Enders

  • Ned Noachim holds a vicious prejudice towards Martians and is introduced attacking a hospital to steal medicine and have his way with the nurses. He is implied to blow up the hospital to frame the Born In Space (BIS) group and later kidnaps three orphans from Pandora Frettum and places them into unmanned LEV suits set to explode when destroyed in order to sully BIS's name. Noachim forces his own soldiers to explode rather than surrender.

And for Red Faction.

  • Red Faction
    • Mad Scientist Axel Capek of the first game was the head of scientific research at the Ultor Corporation who created mutants by experimenting on animals and people alike. Capek tested his scientific curiosity by unleashing a plague on the Mars miners that crippled and killed many innocents. A vicious egomaniac, Capek dismissed the deaths of all the innocents he was responsible for as nothing more than a stepping stone to progress.
    • Lucius Kobel of Guerilla outstrips any of his fellows in cruelty. When the Earth Defense Force loses faith in their current commanders, Kobel is sent in to suppress the Red Faction rebellion for good and all. Civilian casualties were unimportant and Kobel set about with an attack that had one goal: start fresh and exterminate all life on Mars. Beginning a bombardment on Mars, Kobel called the civilians 'expendable' and indicated he had arranged the entire situation simply to seize command from the previous commander.

edited 19th Apr '14 11:52:04 AM by Lightysnake

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#24367: Apr 19th 2014 at 12:00:33 PM

I just read the Commandant; seems he could indeed be a cut (though also seems his case is somewhat analogous to Kefka? Created by an experiment, driven insane).

[nja]And I take it Reaver is good? Will switch these tomorrow.

edited 19th Apr '14 12:05:47 PM by ACW

lrrose Since: Jul, 2009
#24368: Apr 19th 2014 at 12:09:35 PM

From what I remember of Fable II, the Commandant is absolutely loyal to Lucien, though I don't recall whether the loyalty was the result of brainwashing (in which case he's disqualified for lack of agency) or was genuine (which may disqualify him because genuine loyalty can be a redeeming feature). Either way, I think he fails the heinous standard set by Lucien, who is ultimately responsible for the Commandant's atrocities and then some.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#24370: Apr 19th 2014 at 12:25:14 PM

Kefka was driven insane. The Commandmant was created for his purpose. Big difference

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#24371: Apr 19th 2014 at 12:27:11 PM

Ah. Okay. As for Reaver, this was on his characer page:

* My God, What Have I Done?: He acquired immortality through the destruction of his hometown of Oakvale - which ended up killing his childhood sweetheart. The difference is that after thinking he had become a monster, he started acting like one.
  • His note to the player after the end of the game hints that he's starting to undergo another one, mentioning that he had to skip town to carry out an important, but "wearying" errand, which, according to Fable II, is heavily hinted to be him going to sacrifice a youth to the Shadow Court. Considering that we're talking about a man who would gleefully shoot someone just For the Evulz, the fact that he's becoming weary of sacrificing others' youth for own is saying a lot.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#24372: Apr 19th 2014 at 12:30:34 PM

Reaver has zero redeeming qualities when you meet him. his 'wearying errand' is more "Geez, what a bother this is"

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#24373: Apr 19th 2014 at 12:31:50 PM

Okay, good, that takes care of that. Only things left are Grims and Lubikka and then seeing if entries can be unspoilered.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#24374: Apr 19th 2014 at 12:32:44 PM

Sigh. Why do we need to change those two after we discussed and put them up before?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#24375: Apr 19th 2014 at 12:36:40 PM

Or not, if you think they're fine that works too I guess.


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