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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Tvtropesfan234 Since: Nov, 2019
#243376: Jan 9th 2021 at 1:04:38 PM

Also ACW, you misspelled one of the names for the villains (it’s the third one on the pending CM wrote ups)

DrNoPuma Streaky from the land of Humorous Hyenas (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: Married to the music
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#243378: Jan 9th 2021 at 1:20:42 PM

There we go.

Honestly though, reading it...he's the worst in game, but all he has is, what, Villainous Gentrification and a murder or 2? Not sure that's enough.

Tvtropesfan234 Since: Nov, 2019
#243379: Jan 9th 2021 at 1:29:11 PM

If those killings are brutal or gruesome, and his abuse of his henchman is bad enough. Then he may count.

NattesNovgrel from The Middle of Misery, South of Iowa Since: Apr, 2020
#243380: Jan 9th 2021 at 1:41:57 PM

Found this on Michael Vey

-Dr. Charles James Hatch, after learning about the electric children, which he calls "Glows," saw their potential to regain his position as Elgen CEO and more. He killed Zeus's family and made him think he did it to mold him into a ruthless killer. He held Tanner's brother hostage so that he could use his power to take down airborne planes to extort world leaders. After spending a good portion of the first book earning Taylor's trust, he shows his true colors when he orders her to use her power on a motocross biker while he's doing a dangerous stunt. He is very fond of the Sadistic Choice, like when he made Michael choose between killing Wade or seeing his mother again and making a lover of Chairman Schema's hang upside down until blood rushed to her head in his place. He takes Bad Boss to the extreme, as he has multiple underlings that failed him sent to the Rat Bowl, whether they be faceless mooks, close friends like Welch, or even his own Glows. After his invasion of Tuvalu is a success, he has the country's Prime Minister locked in a monkey cage and has his tongue removed to further mock him, which he later intends to do to Quentin after he saved Welch behind his back. At one point, he plans to eat Michael as a victory meal. He offers Taylor as a Sex Slave in exchange for him betraying the resistance. He successfully captures the Electroclan and forces them to watch people get eaten by the Electric Rats. With the help of Zara, he learns the location of the resistance and kills everyone but Sharon Vey, whom he uses as leverage against Carl Vey so that he could humiliate him one last time.

I’m not really a fan of the weird telegram style this has. It feels stilted.

Tvtropesfan234 Since: Nov, 2019
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#243382: Jan 9th 2021 at 2:56:00 PM

It used to be even longer. The "telegram-style" (very apt way of putting it) is scarcely the least of this entry's problems.

Let me:

  • Michael Vey: Dr. Charles James Hatch is the egotistical, child-abusing main antagonist of this series. Hatch ruthlessly exploits the power of electric children called Glows, holding many of their families—and often just murdering them—in order to use them in his terrorist exploits, among them taking down populated jet liners and invading countries. Anyone he has no use for, be they his own minions or his own associates, are sent to the Rat Bowl to be horribly devoured alive. A complete sadist, Hatch hacks off the tongue of the prime minster of a country he's just taken over, offers one of the protagonists as a sex slave in exchange for betraying the resistance, and later has the resistance itself located and almost totally massacred, save one survivor that Hatch spares purely to use as leverage against hero Carl Vey.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#243383: Jan 9th 2021 at 2:57:25 PM

[up]Much better.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#243384: Jan 9th 2021 at 3:05:15 PM

[tup] to the Dr. Charles James Hatch rewrite.

[tdown] to Mayor King. From the sounds of it, he only tries to kill one person and his plan to demolish the neighborhood doesn't sound like he is going to kill anybody, rather just destroy the property. Keepers of this trope need to pass a general heinousness standard, meaning that they need to commit some horrible crimes that stand out on their own like rape or genocide. Unfortunately, one attempted murder and a spiteful personality won't make the cut. While his attempt to murder Clam Man by dropping him in a vat of boiling mayonaisse is a Moral Event Horizon crossing crime, I'm afraid that it isn't heinous enough to make up for his lack of a concrete body count. Still, it was a good first effort post and thank you for editing the original proposal to meet the requirements of one.

Edited by DrUnknown on Jan 9th 2021 at 3:07:44 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#243385: Jan 9th 2021 at 3:08:47 PM

Solid first proposal, but I'd defer to a weak no on Mayor King. Certainly a Vile Villain, Saccharine Show, he's just lacking the extra "oomph" we need. The Wasp King from Bug Fables is sort of the general threshold I use to gauge villains keeping in lighthearted video games—while the relative standard for each game is obviously going to differ, the Wasp King packs in all the personal villainy and attempted murders you'd need to get over the baseline in a setting like that.

Edited by Scraggle on Jan 9th 2021 at 4:09:47 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#243386: Jan 9th 2021 at 3:11:44 PM

[tdown] to Mayor Kingp

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#243387: Jan 9th 2021 at 3:11:50 PM

[tdown] to Mayor King

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#243388: Jan 9th 2021 at 3:14:34 PM

[tdown]Mayor King

Sorry man. Good ep. But just a bit under what we want baseline wise.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#243390: Jan 9th 2021 at 3:23:33 PM

Alright, got a DC villain who's been LONG on my backburner...no longer. I give you one of the most sickening, depraved monsters of all Apokolips: Desaad.

Who is Desaad?

One of the chief servants of Darkseid and his inquisitor and chief torturer, Desaad is a creepy little snake who, to hear Darkseid tell it, was once a gentle little boy of New Genesis. Upon being approached by Darkseid, then Uxas, Darkseid knew the boy had two beloved pets: a cat and a bird. Darkseid made it seem the cat had killed the bird and had young the boy bury the cat in 'justice'...before he saw the bird had survived. Frantically digging up the cat, it was too late...and blaming the bird, he murdered it. Giving into the rage in his heart, the boy left New Genesis behind forever....taking the new name, Desaad, he began to serve Darkseid in the arts of torture, perfecting his skill and grew to leave all of his innocence behind, replacing it with sadistic cruelty.

Now, Darkseid in the old days, had one woman he ever loved: Suli. His mother, Queen Heggra, ordered Desaad to kill her, which he did via poison, all so Darkseid could be married to Heggra's chosen match Tigra. When darkseid found out, Desaad connived a way out, and offered to murder Heggra instead, giving Darkseid the throne. Darkseid stamped out all goodness and love from his heart and became Apokolips's ruler...with Desaad as his faithful little monster.

In a word, Desaad is a monster, who savors pain as a sadomasochistic nightmare. He serves as one of darkseid's chief minions, and regularly tortures others on Apkolips. Desaad has tortured countless beings in horrific fashions, savoring their agony, their terror, while never letting them die and hooking them up to machines so he can enjoy their pain for himself. I'm serious, btw, there's like a bunch of issues where Desaad is just in the background committing some horrific atrocity, like beings who fear death more than life after time at his hands? Desaad tortures them endlessly, keeping them alive while basking in their fear. Other instances? Desaad regularly reaches into the cosmos to earth and other realms, where he'll just torture other beings for fun. One time? He forces a woman to stop breathing, slowly suffocating her to death while gloating over all her terror and agony...Desaad has also tortured some heroes, notably how he nearly killed Kyle Rayner and in one case tortured Wonder Woman so badly she couldn't even walk after breaking out. During the earlier days, too, Desaad happily captured the Forever People where he introduced them to his torture amusement park, 'Happyland' where he keeps loads of people to be tortured with devices that conver their screams to laughter....Desaad comments with Darkseid he wants countless more like this.

Oh, and did I mention he keeps screaming souls stitched together in his room to bask in their suffering? Because he does. Now, some other of Desaad's worst deeds: In the Orion series, he merged with Orion and tried to make Orion become a brutal dictator over Apokolips. In the New Gods series, Desaad tries to betray Darkseid to his returned father Yuga Khan who kills Desaad for Heggra's murder...Desaad's spirit returns where he almost lets earth be annihilated. His price for helping it? The daughter of the Forever People's Big Bear and Dreamer, for the child's powers....oh, and he almost starts a war to destroy New Genesis.

Desaad is eventually defeated with the rest of Apokolips in Final Crisis, but not after tons of evil throughout.

Heinousness?

Yeah, well...name me one villain who compares to Desaad in torture. One. It's worth noting even Darkseid has some disgust to him, not because Desaad is a sadist but he's such a needless sadist that Darkseid considers him petty at times, even if he needs him. Desaad has committed every possible torture on massie scales. Yes, he qualifies for this and he repeatedly attempts to get worse whenever he gets the chance. It's worth noting Desaad is frequently presented as the worst of Apokolips for being such a vile little snake with none of darkseid's brutal charm.

Mitigating Qualities?

For his excuse? That innocent little boy is long dead. Desaad gave into hate and wrath and did it gleefully....since then, Desaad has happily shed all goodness (And this assumes Darkseid is telling the truth over his origin, which isn't definite)...but no. Desaad cares nothing for anyone. His loyalty to Darkseid is wholly superficial and both know it. Desaad switches sides at the drop of a hat, has tried to usurp Darkseid when he feels he can get away with it and when Yuga Khan returns is shown gleefully enjoying Darkseid's own fear. No, there's no good point to Desaad whatsoever. He's a sadistic, cowardly, self-serving snake who lives to hurt others and make the multiverse a worse place than where he found it.

Conclusion?

A long, massive overdue yes to Desaad.

Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 9th 2021 at 3:28:32 AM

Tvtropesfan234 Since: Nov, 2019
#243391: Jan 9th 2021 at 3:26:57 PM

[tup] to Desaad

Edited by Tvtropesfan234 on Jan 9th 2021 at 3:27:07 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#243393: Jan 9th 2021 at 3:28:58 PM

Yes to Desaad.

No to King.

Welcome to the thread, Puma.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#243394: Jan 9th 2021 at 3:29:56 PM

[tup]Desaad

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#243395: Jan 9th 2021 at 3:41:40 PM

Yes to Dessad.

No to Mayor King.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#243396: Jan 9th 2021 at 3:42:13 PM

[tup] to Desaad

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#243397: Jan 9th 2021 at 3:46:31 PM

[tup]Desaad

[tdown]Mayor King (close but no cigar)

@Library Seraph you accidently double posted on you votes for Mayor King

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#243398: Jan 9th 2021 at 3:47:28 PM

Yes to Desaad. Post-Crisis like his boss?

Edited by ACW on Jan 9th 2021 at 6:49:06 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#243399: Jan 9th 2021 at 3:56:00 PM

Could I reserve the new anime Godzilla Singular Point. Looks good and hey it returns to classic monsters which I missed from the previous anime trilogy.

Edited by miraculous on Jan 9th 2021 at 3:56:22 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#243400: Jan 9th 2021 at 4:10:38 PM

[tup] Desaad [tdown] Mayor King

Is Granny Goodness in DC as bad as her iteration from Young Justice?


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