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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#241826: Dec 29th 2020 at 10:38:36 AM

[up] What he said. He also played up his importance in his memories, implied to have tried to boost his confidence. More specifically, he was a friendless loser who still joined SOLDIER and Sephiroth, but under the identity of "Ramirez", so he still would've interacted with Sephiroth. However, his taunting of Aerith's death may indicate that he killed Cloud's mother out of spite. He even adds "Holding another dead loved one in your arms" when he kills Aerith, which indicates that him killing Cloud's mother out of spite may have really happened and, if he didn't, he would've done so anyways. It's also not made explicit if the memory regarding him taunting Cloud is null.

I didn't make note of this potentially mitigating quality in my original post because I thought it fell under YMMV via Alternate Character Interpretation, but I still shoups've included it. I deeply apologize for my major mistake here.

Edited by DrUnknown on Dec 29th 2020 at 11:35:22 AM

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#241827: Dec 29th 2020 at 10:40:25 AM

[up] Yeah, that definitely seems to hint that he killed Cloud's mom out of spite. Also, after hearing what you had to say I’m a bit more comfortable giving Sephiroth a [tup].

NTG Since: Aug, 2014
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#241829: Dec 29th 2020 at 11:34:01 AM

With Unknown's input, I'll switch to a yes on Sephiroth.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#241830: Dec 29th 2020 at 12:45:24 PM

Since its been two weeks since the Winter Finale and this character’s arc is apparently closed due to what I believe is their death (pending any reveals or flashbacks in upcoming episodes), I wanted to talk about the first five episodes of Big Sky.

Anybody mind me breaking it down or want me to wait until the season actually ends? Either one will work.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#241831: Dec 29th 2020 at 12:46:59 PM

[tup] Captain Walter Butler

Anyone reserved Babylon? The series was over for months now, so I guess No? I want to try it.

Cut Freeza, that version is pretty much a adaptation of the Namek saga with only Freeza winning at the end

Edited by KazuyaProta on Dec 29th 2020 at 3:47:37 PM

Watch me destroying my country
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#241832: Dec 29th 2020 at 12:48:21 PM

Sure go ahead ?

You want to look into Ai Magase right ? Heard about her ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#241833: Dec 29th 2020 at 12:50:26 PM

[up][up] A quick look at the To-Do Lists shows me Austin reserved it. You may wanna talk with him first.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED
#241835: Dec 29th 2020 at 1:28:01 PM

[tup] Doll and Upside-Down

Speaking of Upside Down, Stranger Things is going to have a crossover with... wait for it... The Seven Deadly Sins. Yeah. Looks like Mind Flayer's going to show up too, so we'll see how that discussion goes.

Edit: Looks like the crossover will be in The Seven Deadly Sins: Grand Cross game, which I have reserved. If any Stranger Things aficionados want to PM me about what I should be on the lookout for (I've never seen the show), feel free.

Edited by SumDumNerd on Dec 29th 2020 at 1:41:28 AM

Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#241836: Dec 29th 2020 at 1:29:43 PM

*deep breath* [tup] Sephiroth, Crimson, the Agent, Gatou, Doll Woman, Upside Down Man and Butler.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#241837: Dec 29th 2020 at 1:33:30 PM

[up][up]Huh. Sounds interesting. Looking forward to that discussion.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#241838: Dec 29th 2020 at 1:44:14 PM

Fair warning. This is an anti-EP. I wasn’t gonna do it at first and then I thought I should be as detailed as possible.

Sorry if I wasted everyone’s time:

What is the work?

Big Sky is a 2020 ABC Drama series (based on a book called The Highway by C.J. Box) about a team of PI s in Montana. They are investigating the disappearance of two teen girls (a pair of sisters) who were on their way there. This leads them into investigating suspicious activities leading into something clearly very sinister.

Who is he and what has he done?

Rick Legarski is a state trooper who seems innocent enough despite outdated and traditionalist values, but is actually overseeing the abduction and trafficking what apparently is a numerous amount of prostitutes through his Norman Bates-esque charge, truck driver Ronald Pergman. Along with a trans prostitute named Jerrie, Ronald ends up abducting the teenaged sisters Charlotte and Grace Sullivan when they come across him in his travels and the former, not being very smart or sensical, insults him. Ronald keeps all three prisoners on Legarski’s orders.

When Decoy Protagonist PI Cody Hoyt (his son Justin is Danielle’s boyfriend) begins to suspect trafficking and shares this theory with Legarski at the end of the first episode, Legarski seems to agree to investigate and then suddenly shoots him dead. Since he was the last one seen with Cody and circumstances seem very out of the ordinary, Cody’s wife Jenny and their partner Cassie Dewell (Cassie slept with Cody while he and Jenny were separated) correctly suspect he’s involved and that he committed murder to cover his tracks. While trying to divert suspicion, Legarski warns Cassie who’s been personally looking into him with veiled threats.

When Grace escapes and nearly gets help from a fisherman, Legarski kills him with a bow and arrow and then when she attacks him and nearly escapes again, he shoots her in the leg with two arrows and recaptures her (later trying to treat her infections with an antibody of some kind). Legarski decides to get the three girls out of his hair by sending them off to someone else who will try to move them. He moves the girls from the barn in order to prevent Jenny and Cassie from finding them when realizing they figured out the location.

The day the girls are gonna be moved at the rest stop he usually goes to, Legarski believes the guys here to pick them up have arrived when it’s actually Cassie (with Jenny on her way after being bailed out of jail). Legarski threatens to pull out his gun and shoot her if she doesn’t lower her gun and continues to do so even when Cassie hears the girls calling for help. Eventually the tension mounts to a boiling point, Cassie shoots Legarski in the head and he mutters “My, my, my” before then collapsing to the ground.

Redeeming qualities? Mitigating factors?

He seems to love his wife and yet imagined killing her by means of bludgeoning with a hammer because he was jealous she danced with another man (imagining isn’t the same as doing though), but was also intending to give the trafficking up to live a normal life again realizing it was more trouble than it was worth (his grown kids are also only briefly mentioned too and not around). I’m not sure whether you can label Legarski’s stress about killing two people as guilt as much as he’s working so hard to keep from being caught or connected to the things he’s done (though he asks to be forgiven before killing the fisherman). Legarski actually can’t stand Ronald (who definitely loves his mother, was forced into working for Legarski and feels guilty about kidnapping the girls later on) and Legarski is also not a WIE, he’s a religious zealot and KT (and just because he didn’t intend to target them to begin with and did keep them alive, he only wanted to send Danielle and Grace away to make things easier on himself and not in a way in which they would be saved either, but rather the exact opposite).

Heinous standard?

Legarski has had a big part in kidnapping numerous prostitutes and sending them into trafficking and again, forced Ronald into being a big part in this too. That said, Legarski is also likely just a cog in the machine and answers to someone else. The stuff he does is definitely bad enough on a lower scale and yet not to the greater effect that this operation likely has (Disc-One Final Boss is probably an appropriate label here).

Verdict?

I suppose he’s a near-miss for more than one reason and thus, he’d be a [tdown].

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Dec 29th 2020 at 1:50:17 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#241839: Dec 29th 2020 at 1:48:56 PM

Speaking of Sins, does the Supreme Goddess count?

Also, WTF, she just disappears in the end?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#241840: Dec 29th 2020 at 1:53:08 PM

The Supreme Goddess has been sealed away and she never appears enough to keep.

Regard that one, Future...mmm, it's close but I lean no. It's less that he's a cog in the machine, but if he was planning to retire to live a normal life with his wife, jealous fantasy or not...hints he does care for her.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#241841: Dec 29th 2020 at 1:58:44 PM

[up] Yeah I would agree Lighty. He also said he’d fix the TV shelf or something while holding the hammer and saying it almost as a veiled threat (she at least was very uncomfortable, especially since he just woke her up while she was sleeping), but that said, yeah as awful as he is, there is still too much moral ambiguity at work here.

Yeah agree as well on it not really being him being smaller scale that disqualifies him, but the potentially humane qualities he has.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Dec 29th 2020 at 1:59:26 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#241842: Dec 29th 2020 at 2:00:28 PM

[up][up]Their will be a sequel manga as all of them do get one eventually so who knows. Maybe she gets out then ?

[tdown]Legarski

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED
#241846: Dec 29th 2020 at 2:21:42 PM

Other than Demon King, there are no current keepers in The Seven Deadly Sins. The one I've had my eye on for a while is Lilia, a villain from Grand Cross, who kind of serves as the default antagonist for any of the game-original stories or quests. She's got a massive body count and has attempted global destruction on multiple occasions despite being a mere human, but right now her arc's not done (unlikely it will end anytime soon due to her repeated use), and she might legitimately be friendly with her minions, so she's under observation at most at the moment.

Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#241848: Dec 29th 2020 at 2:56:08 PM

And one new update from Pathfinder for tonight! From the module Extinction Curse with one of the coolest names for a CM, I give you...Sarvel Ever-Hunger, the Apocalypse Prophet.

Who is Sarvel Ever-Hunger?

A Xulgath, or more commonly known as a Troglodyte. A member of a barbaric and vicious reptilian sort of humanoid....now some backstory. Long ago, a man named Aroden became a god. To craft a civilization, he raised a massive domain called the Starstone Isles with a failsafe to destroy them if he ever needed to: The Extinction Curse, safeguarded by artifacts called Aeon Orbs. Aroden has been dead for ages...this also caused conflict with the Xulgaths....this is where Sarvel comes in, a chosen of the demon lord Zevgavizeb, Sarvel was born in the Darklands, the first of his siblings to hatch. And the last, since he crushed the others' eggs and ate them. Sarvel rose in the ranks of the Xulgaths, killing and eating friend and foe alike. When Sarvel was recognized by Zevgavizeb's priests, the demon sent another demon of his own...and Sarvel ate it, gaining amazing power, the name Ever-Hunger, and promptly named himself the high priest. Any who opposed him were eaten alive.

Sarvel led his allies on brutal conquests, but hungered for more in the surface, becoming slowly aware of history and how Aroden had stolen from the Xulgaths to make the Aeon Orbs. With a genocidal hatred for the surface dwellers, Sarvel decided to use the Extinction Curse...heading to the surface with the Xulgaths, Sarvel dispatches a number of them to manipulate events and cause large scale conflicts to kill everything in the way of the Aeon Orbs to destroy and seize them one by one, with torture and mass murder on the normal side there. And even his own allies aren't safe: to stymie the heroes, he's sacrified his own Xulgaths to suffer forever and become monstrous Wendigos to stymie the heroes. Sarvel uses his Xulgaths strategically, initiating a string of brutal murders and even raising armies to seize other orbs.

Culminating in the Apocalypse Prophet, as Sarvel proclaims himself the prophet of the end to seize upon the Extinction Curse and unleahs it...this will kill everything on the Starstone Isles and initiate an apocalyptic backlash so he may lead an army and ravage the surface, becoming an overlord to do Zevgavizeb's brutal will. The fight culminates in an intense battle against Sarvel before he can trigger the Extinction Curse and kill countless beings, ending as the Xulgath is slain.

any mitigating Issues?

Sarvel, I think, hits the HS just nicely. Despite being only a Xulgath, he's got deeds to stack up to a lot of the worst, with apocalyptic and genocidal ambitions, plus a host of murders and destruction aside. He's absolutely nasty as all hell there.

The second issue is mitigating issues. Now, the Xulgaths do have legit gripes against Aroden, but it's pointed out a more reasonable and kind Xulgath would just...bargain for reparations and Sarvel is not reasonable. Quoth the book:

"Sarvel, on the other hand, is a very straightforward villain. He has few thoughts other than to destroy what Aroden built and revels in his role as the bringer of an apocalypse. However right or wrong Aroden’s actions were, Sarvel’s response is a wholly evil one, so the heroes shouldn’t have any qualms about confronting and vanquishing him at last"

Any questions?

Conclusion?

A yea to the Apocalypse Prophet.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#241849: Dec 29th 2020 at 2:59:16 PM

[tup]Sarvel Ever-Hunger

Best cm name their.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities

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