During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
to the Mouth and Malastier.
Edited by MalleoWeegee on Feb 13th 2021 at 2:46:55 PM
"I SHALL UNIFY THE WORLD! FROM ALPHA TO OMEGA... BOW DOWN TO ME!!!"So if I remember correctly we decided to wait on a Tolkien's Legendarium page until the series comes out. Or was it another reason?
Edited by Bullman on Dec 22nd 2020 at 3:24:39 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Nine. The tenth is an album. Unless that album had Approval of God, which it might have. I am not super familiar with the album. I don't think we count music with out that.
Though even nine is a lot, and all the games would be one tree, which might end up a little long.
Edited by Bullman on Dec 22nd 2020 at 4:17:43 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
The Battleship Island trio.
So, ok, my niche of short obscure mangas is back.
Setting?
Guren Five is a Shoujo manga about Five Japanese Delinquents that get chosen for Alien Robotic Girl named Harmony that gives them Booster Suits that give them the powers to fight against Gears, a mechanic race of invaders that destroyed Harmony's home planet and plan to do the same to Earth.
The creator of the Gears? Harmony's father.
Who is Selonia?
The creator of the Gears and his two robotic daughters Harmony and Kaine, Selonia actually created them with the goal to fuse with them eventually and start the process of robotizating the entire universe using his so-called Mechanical Cells.
After the gears destroyed his own planet, Selonia was abandoned for his daughters, who escaped to Earth to train strong young people to defend the planet from the Gears. The Gear invasion was gradual, with the main hope being having a gear disguised as a Idol Singer to catch as many as possible.
When the protagonists discover this, Selonia introduces himself to The Smart Guy Raichi and two members of the other grou of heroes, the Holy Quintet. Selonia is beheaded for their leader Fuyuba but he shows be able to survive as a head and summons two Giant Cat Machines to attack the heroes and defeat and roboticize the Captain Fuyuba.
Then, Selonia decides to launch a mass attack to the city of the heroes.
When the daughters are fused, Selonia then decides to drop his spaceship on Earth, an act that could anhilate the surface to force his daughters to stop him. Then, he proceeds to take over their body and starts to gloat how now he will destroy humanity and continue a process of forced robotization across the universe.
The heroes beat Cyborg Fuyuba and fight against Selonia, who tries to stomp The Hero Raku with glee and receives a strong hit that is enough to ensure his daughters could recover control of their body and rip out Selonia's new heart.
Mitigant traits?
Morally? Nope, he clearly doesn't love his daughters anymore (if he even did in first place, seeing how he created them as tools for his plan) and just wants to fuse with them to use their powers. He doesn't care for his homeworld and he only wants to roboticize everyone.
He talks about how robotization is better for everyone and how it would allow everyone to live in peace...and then he spends all the rest of his screentime being a sadist misanthrope that hates organical life.
Heinous standard?
While the destruction of his homeworld is Offscreen Villainy, his attempt to destroy the Earth is totally on-screen. Kill All Humans and his attempted Colony Drop are definitely heinous enough. Plus personal villainy by trying to steal the body of his own daughters.
Verdict?
You decide.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Dec 22nd 2020 at 5:47:22 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Mouth of Sauron.
Okay, I've got my first candidate, and it's one I've been thinking about for a while.
What is the work?
Jennifer is a 1978 horror film, about a girl who wins a scholarship for a prestigious school for the rich. She becomes an outcast at the school due to her country background, and uses her psychic control over snakes to strike back at her bullies. Our candidate is Sandra Tremaine, played to icy, sneering perfection by Amy Johnston, who starts out as an Alpha Bitch but becomes far more monstrous than that.
Who is Sandra? What has she done?
Sandra Tremaine is the leader of a clique of rich kids, with a long history of being kicked out of schools due to delinquent behavior, and who despises Jennifer for her poor background. When she tries to frame Jennifer for cheating and is exposed as a liar, Sandra dedicates herself to ruining Jennifer's life. She starts out with mere pranks, but becomes much more sadistic over the course of the film. When she finds Jennifer at the swimming pool, Sandra pushes her in and tries to hold her underwater and drown her, only stopping when the other girls come in. She then steals Jennifer's clothes while she's swimming and places them in the rafters. When Jennifer tries to climb up a ladder to get her clothes, and falls off at a great height (which could have seriously hurt her), Sandra and her boyfriend Dayton photograph her nude and post the pictures all over the school.
Then Sandra really hits her low point. When one of her friends, Jane, objects to her treatment of Jennifer, Sandra gets even by having Dayton lure Jane into an elevator, stop it between floors, and sexually assault her. This is even crueler because Sandra and Dayton were well aware that Jane had a crush on him. Then, just to top it off, Sandra kills Jennifer's pet cat and hangs its bloodied corpse in Jennifer's locker. She then tells her friends that it was actually her own cat and Jennifer killed it, in order to manipulate them into helping her get even. They kidnap Jennifer from her home and take her up to the roof of a parking garage. Sandra orders her friends to show Jennifer "what we do to cat-killers." She then has her friends drive their cars around Jennifer in an ever-tighter circle, intending to run her down and kill her. Sandra then finds out what happens to cat-killers, as Jennifer unleashes her powers by conjuring snakes, which attack the group. Most of the bullies are merely injured, but Sandra and Dayton are targeted by a giant snake, which bites Dayton's head off and leads to Sandra dying in a fiery car crash.
Mitigating qualities?
None. Sandra is a budding psychopath who wants to torture and even murder Jennifer purely For the Evulz. She is controlling and domineering toward her friends and is the driving force behind everything they do, and seems to feel no genuine affection for any of them. What she does to Jane demonstrates what will happen to anyone who steps out of line. Sandra has one scene with her father which hints at there being problems in the home, but Sandra also tries to manipulate her father in that scene, and this utterly fails to excuse anything she does to Jennifer.
Heinous standard?
This is the only one I'm not sure about. Sandra doesn't actually succeed in killing anyone, but that's not for lack of effort. She's about as evil as a teen in a horror film can be portrayed, and shows less redeeming qualities than most Stephen King bullies, which is saying a lot. Jennifer does kill Sandra and Dayton, and may have killed the cruel headmistress who tried to have her expelled, but all three are portrayed as Asshole Victims. The only other contender might be Dayton, who rapes Jane, but does it on Sandra's direct orders, so that's still on her.
Conclusion?
I'm leaning towards yes. Sandra's one of the most evil teens I've seen in a horror movie, and I think she's earned a place here.
Edited by Javertshark13 on Dec 22nd 2020 at 5:55:38 AM
No to Sandra, she's worse than most Alpha Bitch characters but I feel like she misses the mark since Jennifer actually kills people.
I'm not quite seeing it. The rape and torment are bad but she only targets the protagonist. The fact Jennifer has a body count, Asshole Victims or not, further solidifies to me she's a Hate Sink not crossing baseline. I'll say yes to the Mouth of Sauron and mir's latest Holmes baddie though.
sandra
I don't really care about Jennifer killing these two. Since they sound the definition of having it coming. But I think she's under baseline for a horror film with only one attended rape and an attempted murder it seems.
Edited by miraculous on Dec 22nd 2020 at 3:01:43 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Malastier and the Trope Namer for Mouth of Sauron
I'm gonna give an abstain on Sandra. She may not kill anyone, which seems complicated further by Jennifer killing (albeit The Dog Bites Back), but the intent seemed there. And engineering a sexual assault... Just, ew.
Edited from
to Abstain.
Edited by captainmarkle on Dec 22nd 2020 at 12:03:52 PM
Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.Yes to Selonia.
Abstain on Sandra.
Edited by Bullman on Dec 22nd 2020 at 5:24:51 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadKilling a cat is definitely a Moral Event Horizon, but that in and of itself doesn't a CM make...
Her motivation is very very petty, and while she's going about making the protagonist's life miserable... if the protagonist has killed others, she'd have to do the same, but even more.
Edited by illegaleagle90 on Dec 22nd 2020 at 4:10:05 AM

Mouth of Sauron.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."