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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#241001: Dec 21st 2020 at 4:59:53 PM

Anyone know if his if-anything-even-more-bizarre Kamen Rider counterpart Starfish Hitler is worth looking into?

Wow, what a pagetopper.

Edited by HamburgerTime on Dec 21st 2020 at 7:00:11 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#241003: Dec 21st 2020 at 5:11:30 PM

[tup] Yamada, Hak-chul, Daisuke, Tully, Nazi Crocodile and Corofax

So there's some editing problems in the Tales of CM Page, just want to inform you guys.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#241004: Dec 21st 2020 at 5:12:25 PM

[tup] Battleship Island candidates, Fuhrer croc, Corofax

SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED
#241005: Dec 21st 2020 at 5:14:13 PM

Quick asking of opinion. What's our standing on a villain from a comedic work where the comedy comes from just how evil they are? I was watching a comedic work earlier, and while this guy can't qualify (heinous standard issues), his "comedy" comes from how irredeemably evil he is. Like, one of his lines is "I want to kill everyone in the world, then go to Hell and kill them all again." It just got me wondering.

Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#241006: Dec 21st 2020 at 5:17:57 PM

Ah yes starfish hitler

For anyone curious. Kamen rider x did a theme where half it's monsters where based on Greek gods and the other half on historical figures. They got weird at times as they had a monster called Ogle-Dagger. As in based on Benjamin Ogle,the 9th governor of Virginia combined with a snake.....

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#241007: Dec 21st 2020 at 5:19:06 PM

If the crimes aren't being weighed for all they're worth in universe, then they could well failed for not being played seriously. It can take some thought but there is a line between villains who are just Played for Laughs and those who happen to be Laughably Evil.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#241008: Dec 21st 2020 at 5:20:09 PM

[tup] Fuhrer Crocodile... Umm, ok o_O

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#241009: Dec 21st 2020 at 5:26:32 PM

[tup]to FURHER CROCODILE (and corovax i guess)

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
ATricksterArtist Back from the grave. from CH 57 (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Back from the grave.
#241010: Dec 21st 2020 at 5:41:52 PM

[tup] for the Killer Croc! (Well, Fuhrer Croc, but I couldn't resist.) [tup] for Corofax.

How's your day been?
Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#241011: Dec 21st 2020 at 6:02:01 PM

Yes to Fuhrer Crocodile.

May I address something? I’ve heard that some of ACW’s modifications or adjustments to some CM entries were not appreciated and I wonder what we should do about them. Take for example the DC Rebirth entries at Superman. I did not like the “especially in Brian Michael Bendis’ Superman’s Truth arc” part in Rebirth Mongul’s entry as it is awkward. Do I have the permission to cut this portion away from the entry?

[down] Also yes to Rinaldo.

Edited by Draxterrus on Dec 21st 2020 at 10:07:12 PM

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#241012: Dec 21st 2020 at 6:03:59 PM

One other quick guy I wanna get up

What's the setting?

Le CapitanCaptain Blood in English (no relation to the English movie beside the genre)—is a French swashbuckler from 1960, an exceedingly typical example of the genre I looked into with the hope the Big Bad and The Dragon would count. I really want to post the Big Bad since he's nasty, but he's in a loving relationship with his equally evil wife. No go. Let's take The Dragon, Rinaldo.

Who is Rinaldo? What has he done?

Rinaldo is the hatchet-man of Concini, a noble who wants to assassinate the fifteen year old King of England and dispose of anyone in his way. Rinaldo is the one killing the nobility who could challenge Concini. In the movie's opening Rinaldo leads an attack on the castle of the Marquis of Tyrenac, killing him, his family, and every living soul within the castle.

Rinaldo is characterized by his dirty cowardice; in the massacres he initiates, Rinaldo stays away from the actual fighting except the times he reaches in to stab a man in the back. Among others, this is precisely how he dispatches the Marquis, with a throwing knife to the back while the Marquis is distracted fighting others. When Concini's mole attempts to redeem herself, Rinaldo throws a knife into her gut and kills her.

In the climax of the film, after having attempted a few more murders for Concini, Rinaldo tries to initiate another giant slaughter, this time of all the nobles and their allies plotting to thwart Concini's evil designs. The final battle is even fought with Rinaldo with the vengeful best friend of the Marquis, with Concini himself dispatched offscreen and Rinaldo undergoing a Disney Villain Death after a stab to the gut.

Any mitigating factors?

Rinaldo has more than enough character and agency for a Dragon. Concini has a few notable Kick the Dog moments but Rinaldo is the man committing the actual slaughters, and he goes beyond that with his cowardice and personal murders.

Conclusion?

I'm saying yes. As basic a keeper we can get.

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#241015: Dec 21st 2020 at 6:20:33 PM

Yes to Rinaldo.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#241018: Dec 21st 2020 at 6:31:35 PM

Yes to Rinaldo and go ahead with the cut Drax but also... this isn't free reign to criticize ACW day. There was an issue with some of the Boruto stuff and I've spoken to ACW and Lighty about it on the side but... I'm kinda getting more protective of him on this front, having learned what the world load for curating a thread looks like through MB. He's not gonna be familiar with every franchise and like it or not but shit's gotta be formatted so he's forced to do a lot of guess work. If you have a specific bit of wording you take issue with then just note it and we'll agree or disagree about changing it but don't come in with the tone of "Wow, he does all these changes no one like, let's make it a huge issue before I get to the one thing I actually wanna talk about." I could use stronger words but for now I'm hoping we can leave it at cut the guy some slack, this takes fucking hours every week to basically make everything we do look presentable while we just get to observe from the sidelines.

MalleoWeegee Evolution Requires Sacrifice. from Eurasia Since: Apr, 2020 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Evolution Requires Sacrifice.
#241019: Dec 21st 2020 at 6:32:39 PM

[tup] to Yamada, Hak-chul, Daisuke, Tully, Crocodile, Corofax, and Rinaldo.

Edited by MalleoWeegee on Feb 13th 2021 at 2:49:35 PM

"I SHALL UNIFY THE WORLD! FROM ALPHA TO OMEGA... BOW DOWN TO ME!!!"
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#241020: Dec 21st 2020 at 6:36:09 PM

Only person who was ever listed was Ver who was cut for (IIRC) exactly that.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
DrScavenge27 Since: Jul, 2020
#241024: Dec 21st 2020 at 7:07:41 PM

[tup] to Rinaldo, Daisuke and... Fuhrer Crocodile? WTF?

Edited by DrScavenge27 on Dec 22nd 2020 at 2:51:00 AM

Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#241025: Dec 21st 2020 at 7:23:24 PM

Understood, 43. I wanted to point a few issues we’ve overlooked and this is one of them. I don’t agree with all of ACW’s edits but that is a good point being made here.

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.

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