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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#240377: Dec 16th 2020 at 1:30:55 PM

[tup] to Fang Shi-shiung, the Prophet and Loki.

Okay so Dawson was another easy keeper. As such we’re nearing the end of my Wire In The Blood candidates, however, we still have a couple of nasty one’s to cover.

But first a quick apology, once again having rewatched this candidate was worse than I remembered them being and thus perhaps should have been a bit earlier in the list. Sorry for this, the all important scene was so brief I missed it the first time.

Now without further ado, from season 4’s “Torment” I give the Voice AKA Detective Inspector Jan Shields.

Who Is she:

An inspector from Bradfield Vice squad, on the surface Shields appears a gruff, no nonsense and slightly arrogant, but highly intelligent and dedicated police officer.

However, underneath it all Shields is really a callous, manipulative and corrupt to the core woman, who is driven by deep obsession with power, domination and especially never having to feel weak ever again.

What Does She Do:

Back when Shields was fifteen, one night whilst out at a party she was raped by an unknown assailant. Growing up Shields joined the police force, but deep down the rage at having felt so weak that night still laid buried inside her, causing her to grow obsessed with being in control. In her early forties she developed an utterly brutal way of ensuring she would always feel sufficiently dominant.

Finding the vulnerable Derek Tyler, a weak willed and well below average intelligence man, using her deep knowledge of psychology Shields got to work on Derek until she had managed to get him completely under her control (Tony even compares it to Brainwashing techniques utilised by the KGB), the effect so extreme that Derek was left with no concept of resistance and unable to even recognise other human beings as people anymore, seeing them as blurred and distorted figures.

Having utter control of Tyler, Shields then proceeded to send him on a killing spree. He would find a young blonde prostitute, lure her away to either her place or a hotel room, restrain them and then ask them to beg “please don’t hurt me, I’m only fifteen”. The girls up to this point assuming it was only roleplay.

Only at this point Derek would reveal a device lined with razor blades, and use it to make numerous shallow cuts all over their bodies, gaging them after hearing them scream the first time and regularly removing it so they beg until they could no longer speak. The overall process taking so long, that multiple cuts would clot and he would have to cut them open again. This brutal torture carrying on until eventually the victim bled to death.

Derek likewise taped the entire affair, so Shields could enjoy listening to each murder, her remotely controlling every single step. She likewise had Derek paint the victims nails with her old nail polish. Thus each time getting to feel the satisfaction of being in utter control and killing a proxy of what she saw as her former weakness.

Using Derek, Shields succeeded in remotely murdering Annie Cox, Carole Tressider and finally Sadie Mears. However, her game suddenly came to a halt when the police managed to catch Derek. Shields programming was so strong, that Derek was left unable to speak and just resided himself to passively waiting for further instructions.

Four years later, Shields finally managed to find a sufficient replacement in Carl Adams. Succeeding in doing the same process to him until he was her “little killing machine” she sent him to carry on her murder spree. First killing Juliette Gregory in her standard manner. As the Vice Detective Shields was assigned to investigate the murder and thus she ensured the investigation would go nowhere.

Five weeks later she sent Carl out to kill Lianne Sullivan. At this point ACC Eden brought Alex Fielding into assist the case, and it caught Tony’s curiosity at the sheer unnatural resemblance to Derek’s murders.

Still running the case, Shields kept ensuring they were getting nowhere whilst appearing they were throwing everything they could at finding the killer. A few days later she sent Carl to kill another victim, succeeding in him murdering Tammy Mash.

However, realising that Alex and Tony were getting to close she decided she had do something to keep them distracted, and the opportunity presented itself when they came up with the plan of having a sting operation by having DC Paula McIntyre pose as a prostitute to attempt to draw the killer in.

On the second night, Shields sent Carl to abduct her, knowing the setup of the sting he was able to get her away before they had even noticed her radio was no longer transmitting. Tying Paula to a bed in an abandoned warehouse, the next day Shields sent Carl to record her begging him to let her go, whilst she supervised the search for her, ensuring it would go nowhere near where she was keeping her.

Keeping Paula alive solely so she could keep using her to keep the police distracted looking for her, and also getting the enjoyment of getting pull Alex's strings, for being brought in and showing her up.

However, problems continued to emerge for her when Tony having working with Derek realised that the voice he was hearing in his head that told him to kill was a real person, and thus someone else was behind Carl Adams. Tony’s work was putting them to close onto Adam’s trail.

Realising he was now a liability to her, first Shields had the armed police storm Carl’s flat whilst he was out, then going to his new place, she shot him through the head staging it to look like a suicide. Fearing Tony might break through the blocks she had placed in Derek’s head, posing as his assistant she called the mental institution to talk to Derek, and ordered him to kill himself. Thus Derek committed suicide in his cell by choking on his own tongue.

Knowing Tony was a threat to her, Shields took to stalking him and later talked to him alone supposedly to hear his thoughts about the case hoping to ascertain what he knew. However, her effort’s only succeeded in confirming Tony’s suspicions that Shields was the killer.

As such Shields left a false trail in her home, tricking Tony into visiting an abandoned place. Whilst also sending a message to police claiming Paula was trapped somewhere near the railway. Confronting Tony at gun point, she tried to force him onto the bed planning to personally bleed him to death.

However, Tony refused to play along and instead pushed her buttons until she declared herself to be the killer. At this point armed police burst in, with Tony revealing he was wearing a wire having contacted Alex before he came here.

Thus the police were able to find Paula (it’s not clear if she actually was where the message she’d sent claimed or they managed to make her talk whilst in interrogation).

Any Freudian Excuse or Redeeming Traits:

Okay now this is the stumbling block over whether or not she counts. It is an undeniable that Shields is motivated by the fact that she was raped as a teenager, and the experience left her enraged at being made to feel so weak.

However, whilst this is certainly horrible, its acknowledged it doesn’t come close to justifying what she does, so the question remains does it sufficiently explain her actions? And honestly I'm not convinced it does.

None of the people involved in her sick crimes had anything to do with her assault, there is no indication she ever went after the person who hurt her. Whilst being furious at the experience is completely understandable, the thing is that Shields seems solely obsessed with the fact that the experience made her to feel weak which she hated.

Tony categorises her as obsessed with domination and complete control. Each brainwash and murder lets her relive her trauma, only from perspective of the rapist rather than the victim. Beyond that she simply enjoys manipulating people, be it pulling the team's strings or even playing several seemingly harmless manipulation tricks on Kevin whilst waiting together.

The episode makes it clear that Shields is completely lucid, functioning and understands what she is doing. She just enjoys getting to feel complete control over other people, giving her in an effect a form of extreme compensating that manifests in effect as sadism.

Likewise the sheer cruelty of her murders seems to much for it to explain. It might be understandable for to want to kill proxies of her former self if sufficiently traumatised by the events, but to slowly torture them to death hours on end so she can hear them scream and beg? Especially whilst only obsessing over feeling weak rather than what was done to her? I think that's just to much.

Apart from that there is nothing. Shields certainly presents herself as a helpful and dedicated officer, if a gruff and arrogant one, but it’s entirely a front. At heart she doesn’t seem to care about anyone other than herself.

It’s possible she did let the police know where Paula was to release her, but even if she did it was only designed to distract everyone whilst she killed Tony.

Heinous Standard:

Okay as I said in Dawsons effort post, death by torture is quite rare in this series. Shields not only has one of the higher body counts in the entire show with a total of eight victims, but she is responsible for causing six women to be slowly and agonisingly bled to death. Even for this series that’s utterly brutal.

Likewise whilst arguably not the worst proxy killer in the series, that being Sutton, her domination is far more extreme than any other case including his, with Tony describing it as near complete destruction of their own will.

Conclusion:

Okay now the question is whether you feel what she went through sufficiently explains her brutal crimes.

What do you think?

Edited by MGD107 on Dec 16th 2020 at 2:14:28 AM

Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#240378: Dec 16th 2020 at 1:49:58 PM

Weird question, but do we have any CM incarnations of Santa Claus? I'm asking because I could have sworn the Rare Exports version was at least given an EP once, but having just seen the movie, there's no way he counts.

I'll give a yes to Shields. Sounds like she's way past the point of her rape being a valid Freudian Excuse.

Edited by Stellarvore on Dec 16th 2020 at 3:54:37 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#240380: Dec 16th 2020 at 2:00:08 PM

[up][up] There's SCP-4666, who's one of the entities that fills in the niche of Santa Claus in the SCP-verse.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#240381: Dec 16th 2020 at 2:07:35 PM

[tup]Loki, abstain on Shields

@Stellar, I recommend you ask everyone to PM you so we don’t weigh down the thread with answers to the questions.

Edited by nwotyzal on Dec 16th 2020 at 2:07:56 AM

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#240382: Dec 16th 2020 at 2:08:08 PM

I'll give a yes to Shields. If she had been going after people involved in her rape than it would be a different story, but to live out a power fantasy on innocent victims invalidates the Freudian Excuse. Much more confident [tup] to Loki.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Dec 16th 2020 at 2:09:39 AM

Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#240383: Dec 16th 2020 at 2:16:52 PM

[up][up] Understandable. In fairness, I try to participate in the thread at least a little before asking questions like that one, which is why I went back and voted on Shields. Thanks for the answers.

Edited by Stellarvore on Dec 16th 2020 at 4:17:27 AM

CaptainPinkiePie from Equestria with love Since: Mar, 2019 Relationship Status: Brony
#240384: Dec 16th 2020 at 2:30:41 PM

[tup]Okey-dokie Loki

Hey, do you think this quote by the Khan Makyr would look good on the quotes page:

"If you had let the culling continue, the human race you fight to protect would have survived. Now I will resurrect the Icon of Sin. He will devour Earth and leave your home in ruins."

Captain Pinkie Pie! Nah, just Pinkie Pie.
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#240386: Dec 16th 2020 at 3:06:43 PM

[tup] to Fang, The Prophet, and Loki

I'll also give a tentative [tup] to Shields as well

Also I’ve got a candidate to discuss from a movie I just watched called Outlaw King so lets talk about it.

What’s The Work?

Outlaw King is a Historical action drama film that was released on Netflix in 2018. The story takes place in the 14th century where Scottish King, Robert The Bruce, rallies the people of Scotland against the English and forms a rebellion to fight against the tyranny of King Edward I of England and his son Edward, the Prince of Wales, the latter of whom happens to be my candidate to discuss.

Who Is He? What Has He Done?

Edward, Prince of Wales, is the son of King Edward I who convince his father to “raise the dragon” declaring Bruce an outlaw and that anyone who supports Bruce will be meant with death and is sent by him to crush Bruce’s uprising.

Of course, Prince Edward is a sadistic Royal Brat where he Rape, Pillage, and Burn every single village throughout Scotland massacring countless innocent men, women and children and has his dragon Aymer de Valence ambush Bruce and his soldiers at night decimating Bruce’s forces and killing even more people, while threatening to kill Valence the next time he lets Bruce escapes.

Prince Edward would travel to Kildrummy Castle, where he finds Bruce’s wife, Elizabeth de Burgh, his daughter, and brother. After they refuse, Edward has Bruce’s brother hanged where he guts him before he slits Lord MacKinnon De Mowbray while forcing Bruce’s wife and daughter to watching as he give those two men Cruel and Unusual Deaths before holding them prisoner with only Bruce’s daughter escaping.

To appease to Elizabeth de Burgh’s parent so he can get them to join his side and fight against Bruce’s army, Edward attempts to force Elizabeth to annul her marriage to Bruce and when she refuses he place her in a hanging cage for the tide to rise and drown her to death.

Prince Edward and his father would then travel with their forces to Scotland to battle Bruce and his army, where King Edward shortly passes. The King tells his son to take his bones to be brought to the battle against the Scots, only for Prince Edward to declare his hatred and contempt for his father and insults him one last time before King Edward dies, where the Prince then defies his father’s wishes and has him buried in Scotland, out of pure spite to him.

Prince Edward and his army arrives to battle Bruce and his forces where Edward tries to kill Bruce. After the two dueled Bruce beats Edward and Edward’s forces retreat where Edward begs his soldiers to save him from being killed. After seeing that Edward is nothing more than a pathetic coward Bruce spares him as a Cruel Mercy forcing Edward to live with the shame that everyone will know what kind of coward Edward really is and Edward is eventually killed by one of his nobles years later.

Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?

Prince Edward mentioned that his father use to beat him as a child, but we never seen that kind of abuse onscreen with his father showing cold indifference towards him at worst and only slapping Prince Edward once with a rubber glove to give him luck on the battlefield, while Prince Edward is portrayed as a spoiled and entitled brat who shows nothing but hatred and contempt for his father.

The only reason that Prince Edward doesn’t usurp him is that he’s coward that worries that he’ll get killed if he does so, when King Edward is dying, Edward takes this opportunity to insult him and claim that he’s better than him, before smiling at his death and ordering his men to bury his father in a country that he despises just to spite him.

He also looks down on the Scottish people showing nothing but contempt and prejudice where he constantly insults Bruce at the beginning in what was suppose to be a friendly spar and takes sadistic delight in slaughtering innocent Scottish people and burning their villages, and killing Bruce’s brother in a slow and horrific manner while desiring to kill Bruce, and threatens to kill his own second-in-command should he fail him a second time.

Edward even admits that he has no mercy to anyone who opposes him with his decision to pardon Elizabeth if she annuls her marriage with Robert before returning to her parents is not out of any kindness but out of Pragmatic Villainy so that her parents will have their forces join his army, with Elizabeth even saying that “if you guys are winning, why do you need my parents help” to which Edward imprisons her in a small hanging cage for the ocean tide to kill her, showing know remorse on the fact that this could be a slow horrible death.

So yeah if you really look into it Prince Edward has no justifiable nor sympathetic excuse nor any actual redeeming qualities and loved ones to speak of and is merely portray as a sadistic bully who thinks he’s better than anyone else and is willing to slaughter anyone simply to prove that.

Heinousness

As The Heavy turned Big Bad of the movie Prince Edward sets the heinous standard of the movie convincing his father to declare Bruce a criminal and with himself destroying countless villages and settlements, massacring dozens, if not hundreds of lives, women and children included, kills Bruce’s brother in a horrific manner by hanging and gutting him and slitting Lord Mowbray’s throat while forcing Elizabeth and Bruce’s daughter to watch as he kill those two men before imprisoning Elizabeth in a hanging cage while waiting for the tide to rise up and kill her (don’t worry Bruce rescues Elizabeth) and would have killed Bruce’s daughter had she not escape with the nuns.

Other villains include his father King Edward I, Prince Edward’s dragon Aymer de Valence, and John Comyn. However King Edward mostly Orcus on His Throne who just lets his son do what he want and at least has some respect towards Bruce, Aymer only carries out his actions on Prince Edward’s orders who the prince threatens to kill him should he fail in capturing Bruce a second time and Comyn is killed by Bruce in the beginning of the film before he does anything to stand out. I’d say that Edward, Prince of Wales, reigns supreme in terms of heinousness here.

Final Verdict?

I will leave for you guys to make the decision.

[down] Any votes on my candidate?

Edited by G-Editor on Dec 17th 2020 at 12:19:54 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#240387: Dec 16th 2020 at 3:06:59 PM

Man, Stell's great about participating and you don't ever see him ignoring the topic at hand to ask this stuff. If people would like to PM him back because they look at his question and go, "Well that's neat... never thought about it but I guess there is X", sure that makes sense but I don't think we need to tell a troper with a great track record not to ask stuff like this if he's curious.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#240388: Dec 16th 2020 at 3:12:27 PM

[tup] to Prince Edward. Interesting take considering what happened to the real guy.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#240389: Dec 16th 2020 at 3:24:23 PM

Yes to Edward, but abstain on Shields.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#240390: Dec 16th 2020 at 3:27:13 PM

Yes to the Khan Makyr quote, I think and leaning yes to Edward.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#240392: Dec 16th 2020 at 3:27:45 PM

Yee to the Khan Makyr quote and Edward.

Edited by Bullman on Dec 16th 2020 at 5:28:31 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#240393: Dec 16th 2020 at 3:31:29 PM

Missed that at first, yes to Edward.

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#240394: Dec 16th 2020 at 3:31:46 PM

[tup] Prophet, Loki, and Edward. Also, I think I have a new quote to purpose, here it is:

"Marian, don't you understand? We'll create outbreaks anywhere we want to. We can control where it goes. And when we're done, we'll kill the Kings. It'll wipe out the population, but leave all the infrastructure. It'll be like the neutron bomb I always dreamed of."
General John Hemlock revealing his plans to Marian Mallon, Dead Rising 3.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#240395: Dec 16th 2020 at 3:35:12 PM

[tup] Prince Edward, son of Longshanks.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#240397: Dec 16th 2020 at 3:47:37 PM

[tup] to the Prophet, Loki, the Khan Makyr quote, the Detective Inspector Jan Shields quote, and Prince Edward.

Abstain on the Voice/Detective Inspector Jan Shields.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#240399: Dec 16th 2020 at 3:50:03 PM

[up][up] Umm, you upvoted a quote from Shields, but abstain on Shields herself. I think you might've made a small error, hope that didn't sound rude.

Edited by Michealthehero21 on Dec 16th 2020 at 3:50:25 AM

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#240400: Dec 16th 2020 at 4:05:37 PM

I will give a yes to Shields. The fact that she was raped ONCE at a party as a teenager is not an excuse for brainwashing people to torture other people to death by slowly bleeding them to death and then kill themselves and from what I hear the narrative doesn't try to make the audience feel bad for her. If she had been regularly raped and abused, I might have abstained on her. However, she was raped only once in her life and her actions surpass her excuse by far.


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