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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#240352: Dec 16th 2020 at 7:08:26 AM

Yes to Fang. Did we wanna play around with the Naruto tagline a bit? Not sure what but it seems a little off to me.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#240353: Dec 16th 2020 at 7:12:56 AM

I'm perfectly fine with that. I just took what was on the main CM page as a placeholder.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#240354: Dec 16th 2020 at 7:14:40 AM

No worries, I do the same thing for MB, just if a fan had another suggestion. I will ask for the Path to Ninja character we truncate that first sentence: having his Co-Dragons named with him so close to him makes it look like the trio counts.

Ex., would there be anything wrong with "Genshō Ryūdōin had attacked and destroyed a village in the Valley of Evil in order to unseal the Spirit Beast, a giant catfish-like demon with enormous power..."?

Edited by 43110 on Dec 16th 2020 at 10:15:50 AM

captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#240355: Dec 16th 2020 at 7:18:09 AM

Happy birthday to Hamburger!

[tup] Bradfield Sniper, Dawson, and Fang

Cut the SCP candidates.

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#240356: Dec 16th 2020 at 7:50:13 AM

[up][up] I think the only reason the trio doesn't count is because he's the leader?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#240357: Dec 16th 2020 at 7:58:58 AM

Good work there, Robert, Yea. Now, here's one I've got:

What's the work?

The Year of the Witching is a novel by Alexis Henderson. Our heroine is Immanuelle Moore, an illegitimate child in the religious town of Bethel that borders the Darkwood, said to be the dwelling of four witches. In Bethel, sin of any kind isn’t tolerated and those found guilty of sins are thrown into a desolate prison called Contrition or burned on the village pyre at the behest of the town leader, the prophet. So, let's talk The Prophet.

Who is the Prophet?

The leader of Bethel and the latest of his line, a religious fanatic whose eldest son Ezra Ford is poised to take over. The Prophet is also a tyrannical, lecherous man who runs Bethel with an iron fist. Women suspected of witchcraft are tortured and burned and any women who catch his eye are forced to being his wives, which is marked by cutting a ceremonial seal into their foreheads that mark them as his, with Bethel's brutal misogyny focused on...Immanuelle's mother was marked to become the Prophet's bride, but she left him to take up with another man, Immanuelle's father (who was black, which is a double-problem for the Prophet)...the end result is Immanuelle's birth killed her mother and she was raised by her grandmother. Her father? The Prophet burned him as he does those who truly displease him.

Immanuelle's friend Leah is marked as the Prophet's newest bride, where he subjects her to regular domestic abuse...and even worse, it turns out their engagement is because the Prophet raped her when she was 12, something indicated to happen often. Immanuelle visits the Darkwood and slowly learns of the four witches within, who are punishing Bethel for old sins via plagues there, which make the Prophet even worse, as Immanuelle learns to control witch powers, while simultaneously caught between wanting to change Bethel and keep the plagues in check...Leah around then also dies in childbirth giving birth to a stillborn, and the Prophet eventually abducts her and Ezra both who's plotting with her, saying he'll send them both to the pyre, unless Immanuelle marries him and he'll commute Ezra's sentence to life in prison. Immanuelle finally agrees after a time...except the Prophet made a similar bargain to Ezra and has no intention of living up to his end. Rather, he opts to give Immanuelle the wedding seal and then tries to burn Ezra anyway, prompting Immanuelle to attempt to take his place as a "pure" sacrifice, to the Prophet's rage. In the ensuing conflict, the witches assault Bethel brutally, leading to a fight that sees Immanuelle stopping them...with immanuelle now a hero to Bethel the Prophet demands she be burned, only for the town's women to side with her and the people to turn on the prophet. Ezra urges her to kill him, as the Prophet begs for mercy, but Immanuelle, realizing she wants a better world, decides to grant him that mercy since it has to start with those who least deserve it.

The novel ends with Immanuelle now the leader of Bethel, but a religious conflict brewing as Ezra seems poised to tke over with the Church outside seeming to not want to recognize the succession and the Prophet himself sick, weak and dying without Immanuelle's powers to save him.

Any mitigating Qualities?

Now, the witches are bad and spread their plagues before trying to massacre Bethel, and the Prophets' line is horrible and oppressive as is. That said, the Prophet we see is clearly the worst. The oppression, torture, murder...and he's a rapist of young girls who forces anyone who catches his eye to be his wives, burns people alive...

Now, worth noting? He's far less devout than he lets on. He reveals privately to Immanuelle he knows full well he's a weak sinful man but claims the community needs him, which Immanuelle recognizes as nothing more than the self justifying claims of an egotistical tyrant who relishes punishing others and holding the power of life and death over them. No care for his own son, either who he tries to see burnt alive.

Conclusion?

Easy, easy yes.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#240358: Dec 16th 2020 at 8:06:58 AM

[tup] Fang and the Prophet.

It's Spooky Month!
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#240360: Dec 16th 2020 at 8:18:03 AM

Yes to the prophet.

@ ACW, The trio doesn't count, I'm just making a suggestion to clarify and focus on only Genshō in the first sentence.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#240361: Dec 16th 2020 at 8:21:11 AM

[tup]Prophet easily

I read that awihle back but passed on him since I didn't end up with enough time to do his ep It was back when I was really fascinated by ya books focused on religious cults.

Edited by miraculous on Dec 16th 2020 at 8:21:44 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#240362: Dec 16th 2020 at 8:37:36 AM

Yes to the prophet.

How's this?

  • Genshō Ryūdōin attacked and destroyed a village in the Valley of Evil in order to unseal the Spirit Beast, a giant catfish-like demon with enormous power. Genshō plans to use the Beast to destroy worthless nations and their peoples so he could rule the world. Unsealing the Beast also unleashed its evil spirits, which can make a person aggressive and obsessed with attacking other people until their deaths. When Jakō, one of his two brothers and Co-Dragons, tells him the evil spirits will reach Konoha before the Beast is fully revived, Genshō smilingly replies that he can't wait for that to happens. The evil spirits eventually reached Hidden Sand Village and Konoha, corrupting their inhabitants. After Genshō absorbed the power of the Beast, he thanks Jakō for buying him some time by killing him. He then forces Naruto to watch him killing his friends by slowly draining their strength.

Edited by ACW on Dec 16th 2020 at 11:52:26 AM

RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#240363: Dec 16th 2020 at 8:58:13 AM

Yes to the Prophet.

YAWN Good night, peeps

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#240365: Dec 16th 2020 at 9:06:25 AM

[tup]Prophet.

Why so serious?
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#240368: Dec 16th 2020 at 9:59:43 AM

Yes to Fang and Prophet.

Happy birthday hamburger!

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#240369: Dec 16th 2020 at 10:16:27 AM

I’m watching the FS tonight. If I have an EP from it, anybody mind me posting it right away once it’s done? Or at least discussing why no one counts if I don’t have an EP?

Actually, since it’s a Christmas-themed one, I might wait until Christmas Eve or Christmas Day then in that case.

I might have someone from Big Sky worth discussing whose arc I think is done as of last night (so on 12/29). This character could still appear in flashbacks later on though. They worth discussing in two weeks?

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Dec 16th 2020 at 10:18:28 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#240370: Dec 16th 2020 at 10:28:31 AM

future: I don't mind. Do it when ever you feel like.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#240372: Dec 16th 2020 at 12:39:52 PM

Alright, here's a book series that I've been trying to check out since the start of the year. However, libraries closing due to....current events resulted in me not being able to complete the series until now. With that said, let's get into it.

What's the Work?

Underworlds is a book series by Tony Abbott, the author of Kringle. The book follows a group of 4th graders, led by Owen Brown, as they journey through a series of mythological Underworlds and battle figures from various myths, including Greek and Norse, to save their world from the wicked god, Loki.

Who is Loki? What Does He Do?

The wicked Norse trickster god, Loki seeks to wage war on Asgard to claim Odin's throne for himself, manipulating several Underworld monsters to join his army. As part of his goal, Loki seeks the Crystal Rune, the key to Odin's throne, which Owen's friend, Dana Runson, knows the location of, the knowledge having been passed down by her parents. At the start of the first book, Loki abducts Dana, trapping her in Hades' Underworld, spurring Owen and his friends to go on a journey into said Underworld to rescue her. Meanwhile, Loki sends dragons after Dana's parents, who had journeyed to Iceland, where the Crystal Rune is located, whereupon they destroy a village and abduct her parents, imprisoning them in Niflheim.

Releasing more monsters from the Underworld into the human world, Loki releases a pair of Cyclopes to build an indestructible suit of armor to make him invincible. The children are tasked by Hades with capturing them, and they follow Loki's Draug army to the Norse Underworld, where they witness Loki's plot to use the human world as his battlefield against Odin, as well as being shown a vision of the days to come, entailing entire towns, villages and cities reduced to ash. Loki commands his warriors to take Dana and kill the other children, but they manage to escape, taking Loki's glove, stealing some of his power. Loki then sends his dragons to burn down villages in Hades' empire as a distraction while he slips away to the Babylonian Underworld, the realm of Kingu the Scorpion King, to acquire his fire monsters, revealing his plan to have all of Midgard (their word for the human world) "burn to ash".

Loki manages to control the fire monsters with his runes, though the kids prevent him from getting the Tablets of Destiny, making his control over them only temporary. Kingu dispels Loki from his Underworld; to spite the children, however, Loki has his forces launch an attack on their home town of Pinewood Bluffs, having the town burned down, forcing its residents to evacuate.

The kids promptly travel to Iceland to get the Crystal Rune, which they do; however, Loki captures Dana and secretly swaps places with her, imprisoning her in Niflheim while he joins the children into Asgard, whereupon Loki takes the rune for himself, "killing" Odin's son Baldur in the process (he gets better). With the rune in his possession, Loki launches an all-out assault on Asgard. During the battle, Odin reveals that if Loki uses the key on Odin's throne, it will transform into a Doomsday weapon that will destroy all worlds.

Owen attempts to destroy the throne with Orpheus' lire, but Loki transforms into an ice dragon and tries to kill the children, trying to unlock the throne even after Owen tells him what will happen if he does. However, Owen plunges his sword into his chest, returning him to his true form and defeating him, shattering his control over his army. As a final act of spite, Loki sends Fenrir to trap Dana in the Underworld permanently, but Owen manages to rescue her and her parents. A defeated Loki is promptly imprisoned in Valhalla for his crimes.

Mitigating factors?

No redeeming qualities. It's mentioned that several of the creatures, like Fenrir and Hela, are his children, but he isn't shown displaying any love for them. Even the Underworld rulers like Hades and Kingu, who aren't exactly saints themselves, are disgusted by Loki and try to stop him.

Heinousness?

Tony Abbott seems to have a knack for surprisingly awful children's book villains. The series never tries to sugarcoat Loki's crimes and how he will destroy the human world in his quest to overthrow Odin; an oracle conjures a vision detailing entire cities being destroyed by his war, and he actually does have the protagonists' town burned down out of spite.

Final Verdict?

Your call.

Edited by Clown-Face on Dec 16th 2020 at 4:51:37 AM

Why so serious?
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#240374: Dec 16th 2020 at 12:55:08 PM

[tup]Loki.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP

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