During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
And here's this:
- Griffin Ranger: Deverall is a monstrous scientist commissioned to create and release a genocidal plague to wipe out the griffins and hanz. Putting his subjects through torturous experiments, Deverall even forces the captive griffins to rape one another to produce eggs to incubate the virus and swiftly kills those he finds useless by repeatedly infecting them with strains of the virus. Ordered to terminate the griffins by his superior, Deverall instead kills only half, attempting to keep the rest as a private "zoo" for himself to enjoy tormenting.
Alright, Jax is in the drafts. I'm not 100% happy with it, so if someone wants to go in there and change it feel free.
- RWBY: Before the Dawn: Jax Asturias is the leader of the Crown, an organization dedicated to restoring the Vacuo monarchy with him in charge. Born with a weakened aura but a Semblance of mind control, Jax uses his Semblance to enslave any who cross his path, recruiting them for his "army" to destroy Shade Academy. He also manipulates his sister into going along with his plans, forcing her to constantly spend her aura on him even though he doesn't care about her at all; in fact, as a child, he once attempted to take all of her aura, which would have killed her if it had succeeded. Jax has a particular dislike for Huntsmen, driven by envy due to his weak aura, and specifically targets them for his Semblance whenever he can. An arrogant man with delusions of grandeur, Jax's claims of wanting the best for Vacuo are quickly undermined by his true self: a selfish Psychopathic Manchild who will do anything to claim as much power as he can, and is ready and willing to put the entire planet under his control for the sake of his ego.
Also: Slavery Is a Special Kind of Evil, or Human Traffickers?
EDIT: Actually, looking at his character page, Superhuman Trafficking may be better.
Edited by ACW on Dec 13th 2020 at 11:24:28 AM
How about keep Slavery Is a Special Kind of Evil where it is, but add Superhuman Trafficking under the word "Huntsmen"? The story calls them human traffickers, but it focuses more on Jax specifically putting them under his control, so I feel that slavery works better there.
Also, just to be accurate, “Aura” should be capitalized like it is in the canon.
Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation hereAlso ACW, I'd use Rape by Proxy, as it's more specific to Deverall, since it's not himself he's forcing on the griffins.
This may just be me but I feel like "all" shouldn't be italicized. I always felt that italicized words were a bit, unprofessional for lack of a better word, at least for write ups since we put a lot of effort into how the write ups read. I don't know what anyone else thinks of that but if people disagree I won't complain.
43: Pothole changed.
- RWBY: Before the Dawn: Jax Asturias is the leader of the Crown, an organization dedicated to restoring the Vacuo monarchy with him in charge. Born with a weakened Aura but a Semblance of Mind Control, Jax uses his Semblance to enslave any who cross his path, recruiting them for his "army" to destroy Shade Academy. He also manipulates his twin sister Gillian into going along with his plans, forcing her to constantly spend her Aura on him even though he doesn't care about her at all; in fact, as a child, he once attempted to take all of her Aura, which would have killed her if it had succeeded. Jax has a particular dislike for Huntsmen, Driven by Envy due to his weak Aura, and specifically targets them for his Semblance whenever he can.
So if no one minds, I'm going to be doing some readings on short stories we have on the Pasta page to see who else keeps or goes. Just to clear things up on the page.
I won't be covering my own short story to avoid writer's bias, but I will be revisiting some examples I previously brought up.
With that being said, here's the two that stay thus far.
- The Fenter Wood's Creature from Fenter Woods. I could gush to no end about what a gem it is, but it does have simple narrative on the protagonist going to rescue his friend Jess. Both the protagonist, his friend and even some family members are given a decent bit of characterization, and we get some background too. The creature, as I described when I proposed it, is still Creeper esque in that it's ostensibly a predatory creature, with all too human behavior, such as smiling or collecting trophies. So, a keep in my book.
- The Nightmaker of My Father Stood Outside My Bedroom Window. Solid keep - the story is short, but the Nightmaker's exact nature and crimes are not revealed until near the ending, and the bulk of the focus in on the protagonist and his relationship with his grandmother. It is a Feelspasta more than anything really (a sub category of Creepypasta that's meant to invoke emotions, such as a Tear Jerker or something uplifitng). It may do things to your heart if you are/were close to your grandma is what I'm saying.
- I was Claimed by a Skinwalker. The Skin Walker barely keeps. Had it not been for the sequel story, it would be just a generic "Monster killed a bunch of my friends story" but the sequel is more of a psychological horror story where the protagonist tries to overcome their trauma, even talking a bit about his life, and having a plot point of being in a new relationship. Even with the Skinwalker getting a Bad Guy Wins ending, it still does more than just be a rampaging beast, and in my opinion, it's tormenting spirit seals it's deal more than the people it kills in the previous story.
I'll have the rest of the stay/go list tonight.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."Alright, have a Batman one from the new 52, an update of one of Ravok's: Deacon Joseph Blackfire.
who is Joseph Blackfire?
Reappearing in Batman Eternal, Joseph Blackfire is the self styled "Deacon" to Gotham's poor. Now, in the ?new 52, everything Blackfire's done previously is still present, torturing and brainwashing the poor and desperate of Gotham, human sacrifice, planning mass murder, but all that ended when he tried to break Batman and Batman exposed him as a fraud in front of his followers, resulting in them beating him to death....Blackfire later returns, his evil soul returning as he begins to mentally torture and corrupt patients of Arkham Asylum, driving them crazier and feeding off them there, empowering himself more and more. Blackfire begins putting together a new cult, also inducting some of Gotham's worst villains while summoning hosts of undead and demons to Gotham as Blackfire imself possesses the body of comatose supervillain Maxie Zeus.
To focus his power, Blackfire is having 'aetheric pylons' made with blood and sacrifice, intending to capture Jim Corrigan, host of the Specter, to turn him into one, so he can focus all his powers and revive himself in the flesh with a blood sacrifice; namely the sacrifice of all Gotham City, sending his demons to "cleanse the streets" in a violent slaughter and to send Gotham itself to hell. Blackfire is stopped when the Specter is unleashed, sealing the gates and crushing his ghost, seemingly destroying him...
Except Blackfire returns one more time on the strength of his cult's own beliefs. Blackfire sends his cult to capture his descendant, a young boy named Joshua, whom he plans to sacrifice and possess to return to life while Batman tries to stop him. However, Batman manages to stop them, convincing the cult of Blackfire's fraud and promising them better lives...without their faith in him, Blackfire's soul loses its tether and is banished back to hell, this time hopefully for all eternity.
Heinousness?
Okay, all the original Blackfire stuff is canon and he was bad enough then. Now? Oh boy...he's even worse. By far, no less, with attempting to slaughter Gotham, murder his innocent grandson, loads of torture and death, pass.
Mitigating Qualities?
Not a thing. He's an egomaniac out to 'cleanse' the city in his own brutal fashion for the sake of his pride and twisted hunger for domination.
Conclusion?
A yes to the Deacon
Yes to Blackfire, Jax, Baron Gruda and Mr Brown.
Star Trek is more idealistic than Star Wars (with the heroes often solving conflicts through diplomacy rather than violence) and Star Trek has 41 monsters at the moment in its page (way fewer repeats than Star Wars).
I think the size of these franchises and that some stories work well with a Complete Monster in it leads to pages with high numbers.
Edited by Overlord on Dec 13th 2020 at 11:56:29 AM

Which is funny because George Lucas said the point of Star Wars is redemption. Although to be fair, a few of these entries are for two different characters with an exaggeratedly long, respective rapsheets.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."