During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
the Creepypasta duo.
@STAR: You'd be best doing two posts, one for each EP. You can do them in quick succession.
EDIT: I'm shotgunning the Fantastic Four reboot. Would be happy to collab, as I've never done a collab before.
Edited by captainmarkle on Dec 12th 2020 at 10:39:39 AM
Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.Okay, this is just sort of dawning on me, but I just realized the candiates we were cutting where also brought up on December of last year.
It's not too significant, but sometimes these things kind of amuse me.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."A lot of this stuff has been brought up before but I've found it's taken a few gentle—sometimes not so gentle—reminders that if you're paying close attention to the actual criteria, this stuff doesn't stand. Just look what happened with a bevy of the music "keepers" earlier this year. People had wanted that stuff kept for sometime.
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At the same time too. Lol
Btw another one I'd bring up myself for a possible removal.
This is a 1, 700 word (holy shit) story with the protagonist like having like no character, theirs no climax here (everything just stops after a bit), we never even find out what the hell this thing even is. This is way too little imo. The story just amounts to the villain dicking with the main character for a bit.
Edited by miraculous on Dec 12th 2020 at 1:48:36 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."TBH, Looking back I don't personally agree with the argument on Patterson, but Abby's father and God both seem like cuts.
@STARCRUSHER
He was briefly discussed awhile back, according to Nerd he loved his sister. If you had an argument against that however I think we'd be open to talk on it.
On the subject of RWBY tho....the New episode, well the eventual discussion on this Volume is gonna be interesting, can't share why obviously but, Woah. PM me to talk if your curious.
Edited by Snoketrope on Dec 12th 2020 at 2:11:40 AM
Bow to the PrototypeGo ahead and message me Snoke, you know I'm always down to talk about that one. Also I've got an entry I'd like to suggest a rewrite on:
This:
- Griffin Ranger: Deverall is the Evilutionary Biologist commissioned by the Big Bad Duumvirate of Whitehead and Russell to create and release a genocidal plague to kill Whitehead's arch-enemies, the griffins, and their Servant Race, the hanz. To facilitate this, Whitehead kidnapped and sent over to his lab members of 5 of the 6 sapient races, including his own. The griffins, especially, were subject to Cold-Blooded Torture: They were forced to rape one another to produce eggs to incubate the virus, and those that were too young, insane, or infertile were black-tagged and repeatedly infected with strains of the plague until they died. When ordered by Whitehead to terminate the griffins, he instead keeps half alive to use in his own private zoo—and puts the other half to death offscreen with his plague, including Aera's "adopted" griffin child Voll. In the end, Vaniss's War Flock busts in, frees the last five survivors, and incapacitates Deverall (with a Heroic Sacrifice of one of the captives), but they are unable to rescue the black-tags in time. She brings the building down on both Deverall and the black-tags with explosives, destroying the plague, but none of the last survivors leave that chamber of horrors without lifelong scars.
It gets kind of confusing since it jumps back and forth between Deverall's crimes and stuff that Whitehead did and also goes way too far talking about the actions of other character for me to find it focused on it's topic.
Here's what I'm thinking:
- Griffin Ranger: Deverall is a monstrous scientist commissioned to create and release a genocidal plague to wipe out the griffins and hanz. Putting his subjects through torturous experiments, Deverall even forces the captive griffins to rape one-another to produce eggs to incubate the virus and swiftly kills those he finds useless by repeatedly infecting them with strains of the virus. Ordered to terminate the griffins by his superior, Deverall instead kills only half, attempting to keep the rest as a private "zoo" for himself to enjoy tormenting.
Thoughts?
Alright, in honor of finishing my last semester with a 4.0, I'm gonna be doing two EPs for the same character. Here's the first one, in this case his canonical counterpart.
What is the Work
RWBY itself - I know I mentioned this in my last EP, but just to be safe - RWBY is an anime style show produced by Rooster Teeth in which students train from college age to become Huntsmen, humans who are trained to fight the monsters of Grimm that always threaten humanity. The Grimm are led by a woman named Salem, a fallen human who is cursed with immortality and seeks to bring together four Relics in order to bring about the destruction of the world. Both stories take place in the desert kingdom of Vacuo, the kingdom most known as a largely lawless desert.
RWBY: Before the Dawn: Taking place after the fall of Beacon Academy in Volume 3, the novel follows B-Teams CFVY and SSSN as they start new lives in Shade Academy within Vacuo. In the process, they come in conflict with a group known as the Crown, led by Jax Asturias, who seek to restore the monarchy to Vacuo and in the process reveal just how heinous they truly are.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
Jax Asturias, the leader of the Crown and Big Bad of the novel, presents himself as someone who wants what's best for the average citizens of Vacuo, but it quickly becomes clear that in reality he's a petty Psychopathic Manchild who cares about absolutely nothing but himself and his own power. In the past, he attempted to become a Huntsman, but was incredibly arrogant and had severe delusions of grandeur which eventually led to him being expelled from the Academy. Undeterred, he formed the Crown, ostensibly because he is a descendent of the previous King Malik the Sunderer (even though his bloodline was wiped out and declared untraceable generations ago).
Jax has the incredibly powerful Semblance of mind control, and by the time the story begins, it's clear that the Crown is now, at its core, a human trafficking operation. Almost everyone that comes into Jax's club gets mind controlled into his army, all with the sole aim of trampling over Shade Academy, the Academy designed to protect humanity, and installing Jax as the King of Vacuo.
Quickly after his introduction, he enslaves Sun and Velvet with his Semblance, and, upon Yatsu proving himself able to remove the effects from others, controls Yatsu as well, all while revealing the deep envy he feels towards other Huntsmen students for their strength and auras. Following this, he decides that they have enough strength to destroy Shade and thus forces his army to attack, over the objections of his sister and non-controlled followers. It's clearly a result of his impatience and overconfidence causing him to believe that he can do anything he wants.
During the battle, Jax personally engages and attempts to kill several students, attempting to personally attack Headmaster Theodore so that he can control him as well. When Sun ultimately informs everyone that the Crown are the real enemies, meaning even the average citizens are now joining the battle, Jax is not discouraged and, despite his sister's recommendations, decides to stay and die with his creation. Unlike most instances of this situation, it's not portrayed as Face Death with Dignity - it's shown that he's so insane that he genuinely believes that he can turn the situation around, and it proves that despite his claim that he's doing what's best for Vacuo's citizens, all he truly cares about is himself and he will kill them all the second they step out of line.
When his sister attempts to drain his Aura to encourage him to leave, he instead forces her to give him her aura, meaning that even betraying his sister is not off the table. He's subsequently attacked by Yatsu, who, alongside his sister, attacks and defeats Jax by Gillian boosting his aura enough that Yatsu can use his own Semblance and render Jax into a vegetative state. Yatsu is shown to be completely in the right for this decision - it allows the people that Jax mind-controlled to go free, and even Gillian, his own sister, agrees that he needed to be stopped.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
None whatsoever. We see the horror of his Semblance firsthand and it's clear that almost everyone we see serving him throughout the story has fallen under it at some point or another. Additionally, despite a potential Freudian Excuse (his Aura is constantly draining and killing him, so his sister has to keep him alive with her Semblance), it's only used to show just how horrible he is - in the end, despite the fact that his sister has dedicated her entire existence to keeping him alive, he turns on her the second she dares speak against him.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Yes. While Sun has crossed paths with Adam Taurus already by this point, Jax is on par with him in terms of sheer destructive power. Jax is willing to doom absolutely everyone around him to the Grimm if it means that he can get what he wants, and fully intends to completely take over all of Remnant once he's done with Vacuo. While taking over the world might be tame in comparison to destroying the world like other canon villains, in terms of sheer destructive ability and potential kill count, Jax still manages to equal them out.
Final Verdict?
I think he's an easy keeper - what about you guys?
Edit: I've now seen that he was discussed before and that he supposedly loves his sister - I strongly disagree. It's shown multiple times that he couldn't care less about what she has to say outside of helping his organization, he never once acknowledges the fact that she nearly dies several times protecting him, and ultimately uses his semblance on her the second it benefits him. It's also hinted multiple times that he served as The Corruptor for her, implying that he simply twisted her for his own benefit. IIRC there's not a single moment that implies he genuinely loves his sister - if I'm wrong there, correct me - but ultimately he still proves that she's just a tool to him.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Dec 12th 2020 at 2:25:32 AM
Lemme hear from some more on that one before I vote: what was his relationship with his sister like prior to her trying to "drain his aura"? What exactly does that entail? Did it put him at risk while he was fighting or whatever and that could be why he fought back rather than never having cared for her? He sounds like a yes from this but I'd like some more info first.
So as a child, Jax was born with an incredibly weak Aura because Gillian accidentally drained it from him in the womb. This filled him with resentment, especially in comparison with the genuine love she felt for her brother. At one point when they were younger, Jax tried to mind control her into giving him all of her aura (which, for the record, would've killed her) but her Semblance's Required Secondary Powers shut it off when it became too low. In similar instances, she consistently gives him as much aura as she can without her Semblance shutting off, even though it leaves her just as weak as he always is and likely to be killed, all without a single word of thanks. In fact, his final words to her reveal that he resents her for draining his aura in the womb, even though she had absolutely no control over it (you know, being a fetus).
She finally starts draining his aura in the final battle because he has made it clear that not only is he willing to go down the the ship, but he'll take her down with her. Unsurprisingly, she doesn't want to die, so she turns on him.
To summarize, Gillian using her powers to protect him puts her in danger constantly, and he makes it clear that not only could he not care less, but he would take more if he could.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Dec 12th 2020 at 2:36:52 AM
From Nerd's post on the subject:
Jax and Gillian, though heinous, care about each other (Gillian saved Jax's life when they were kids, which Jax is extremely grateful for; Gillian, when the Crown starts to lose the climactic battle, urges Jax to retreat. When he refuses, she betrays him to force him to stand down so he won't be killed).
Okay, so... now you're telling us nothing indicates he loved her? What happened here, this is gonna have to be addressed specifically and cleared up.

Cut the father.