During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I'll give a yeah for now and as I just handled this on MB, I'm wondering if the Akame CMs could use a face lift:
Current:
- Akame ga Kill!:
- Prime Minister Honest is a bloated, grotesque glutton who, manipulating the young Emperor from behind the scenes, is the source of the Empire's corruption. Honest is introduced having a man loyal to the young Emperor executed while promising Honest will "care for" the man's wife. Throughout the series, Honest allows murders, rapes, tortures and helps to grow the monstrosity of corruption in the capital so nobles do whatever they want at the expense of the lives of those beneath them. Honest has the military launch brutal campaigns of conquest and expansion and when his evil son Syura returns to the capital, Honest gives him a group of evil criminals, the Wild Hunt, to attack civilians in the guise of "justice". Aware of his own mortality, the hedonistic Honest plans to corrupt the Emperor so that even after his own death, the corruption of the empire will go on. By the end of the series, Honest manipulates the Emperor into using the Supreme Teigu and warps his mind so he indiscriminately attacks the enemy troops and his own civilians, killing countless innocents as Honest gloats over the death and destruction. When he fights—and supposedly kills—Leone, Honest reveals that his ultimate goal is simply to live to 130, indulging in the good life all the way, before trying to rape and possibly eat her. After the Emperor is defeated, Honest simply abandons him and attempts to flee.
- Syura, the twisted son of Prime Minister Honest, is driven by a desire to surpass his successful father, and puts together the group of vicious psychos known as the Wild Hunt in order to hunt down the Night Raid. Syura wastes no time terrorizing the populace in attacks where innocent people are butchered and men, women and children alike are raped by him and his squad. Syura himself treats his "playthings" horribly with a tendency to kill them, all the while daring someone to challenge him as he is the son of the Prime Minister and thus untouchable. When he actually captures a member of Night Raid, Syura subjects him to hideous torture, including crushing one of his testicles, to get him to speak. When he encounters the widow of a genuine Imperial war hero, Syura wastes no time raping and murdering her while one of his men has her young daughter right on top of the husband's grave. Spoiled, selfish, and monstrous, Syura is consumed with nothing more than a need to satisfy his own desires and cruelty.
- Champ, a pedophile and one of the Wild Hunt, was imprisoned for being a Serial Rapist and Serial Killer. During an early raid of the Wild Hunt, Champ notices a little boy and kills a woman trying to stop him from raping him. Champ comments how he enjoys killing the children before they can become "filthy adults", and later rapes and murders the daughter of a dead imperial war hero right on top of her father's grave while Syura handles her mother. It is revealed that a member of another Imperial Squad, the Jaegers, named Run, has joined simply to get revenge on Champ for slaughtering his class from the days when he was a teacher. When confronted with this, Champ comments he's violated and killed so many kids he can't even remember the class until his memory is jogged. His only emotion is disappointment that them screaming for Run to save them ruined his fun.
Suggested:
- Akame ga Kill!:
- Prime Minister Honest is the self-indulgent de facto ruler of The Empire, manipulating their young Emperor to maintain his hedonistic lifestyle. Regularly ordering the execution and torture of innocents, Honest uses his position sexually assault women as he pleases and terrorizes his population with his military, allowing his twisted son to form Wild Hunt to rape, torture and kill as they please. Launching devastating campaigns to secure his grip of power, when the capital is attacked by rebel forces, Honest convinces the Emperor to activate the Supreme Teigu, risking the city's entire population just to avoid giving up power. Having poisoned the previous Emperor to stay in power, Honest's only hope is that his twisted corruption lives on even after he dies through the current Emperor and when beaten, cowardly flees for his life.
- Syura is Honest's son, the leader of Wild Hunt and just as sadistic as his father, whom he hopes to outdo in evil. Taking his band of psychopaths to indulge in the same depravities of himself: Syura sees attacks where innocents are butchered and women and children raped before being slaughtered, even having a mother and her daughter violated and killed atop her soldier-husband's grave. Capturing a member of Night Raid, Syura horrifically tortures him for information, enjoying every moment of doing so.
- Champ is a pedophile and Serial Killer and the most depraved member of Wild Hunt alongside Syura. Murdering a woman for trying to stop him from raping a young boy during one of Wild Hunt's raids, Champ goes on to force himself on the young daughter of a dead Imperial soldier before killing her. When confronted by the former teacher of a classroom full of children he had raped and murdered, Champ struggles to recall the event due to the sheer volume of his victims.
Thoughts?
Edit: spacing out that part of Champ's entry in case it gets accepted and ACW wants to get Would Hurt a Child in without a chain hole.
Edited by 43110 on Dec 9th 2020 at 12:41:52 PM
Putting forth my heavy, heavy approval for the Akame Ga Kill rewrites, excellent work as always!
Alrighty-roonie, been well over a week since I made an effortpost here, so let's remedy (huehuehue) that right quick with one I think should be a pretty open-shut case...
What's the work?
Max Payne is a phenomenal video game trilogy created by Remedy Entertainment, who made the first two games in the franchise before the third and (thus far) final entry was crafted by Rockstar Games.
The series follows titular Max Payne, a hardened, jaded, pill-popping NYPD detective driven to vigilantism and even mercenar....ism....following the brutal slaying of his wife and child. Max comes up against all forms of corrupt corporations, psychopathic drug slingers, and sleazy politicians, and today, I wanna talk about his confrontation with the latter in the 3rd game in the series...and though said sleazy politician already has a deserved place on this trope? I think his right-hand man deserves a shot.
Who is he?
Armando Becker is The Dragon to our resident Big Bad, Victor Branco. While Victor serves as the behind-the-scenes mastermind of the game, Becker is the upfront, brutal, resources-heavy Commander of the 55th São Paulo Special Forces Police Battalion, known almost exclusively as the "UFE."
What has he done?
Becker's corruption is exposed throughout the game...be it executing disarmed or surrendering criminals, or being revealed to have sold information to criminals that lead to them raiding and massacring a yacht party years ago, Becker has his fingers in a number of criminal activities, but it isn't until the game nears the end that we see the full extent of his evil.
As it turns out? Becker is the most important, biggest contributor to the massive organ trafficking ring taking place in Brazil. Under the illusion of "cleaning up the streets," Becker would find small-time thugs—and even frame total innocents as criminals—then capture them and sell them off by the dozens to the Cracha Preto group to be harvested of their organs bit by bit until they die.
One of the ways Becker disguises these mass kidnappings is staging raids of entire neighborhoods and kicking up firefights with local gangs to cover up his atrocities...notably, in Chapter 9, one of such raids is shown, showcasing Becker's UFE forces marching on a neighborhood, casually executing cowering civilians and rounding up others to be kidnapped and sold to the Cracha Preto for a horrible fate.
Now, as Victor Branco's conspiracy to kill his brothers kicks up, Becker does his part and assists, notably having his men infiltrate Rodrigo Branco's home and execute Rodrigo, and later has Marcelo captured and handed over to the Cracha Preto to be burned alive.
When our boi Max Payne catches wind of the fuckery afoot, Becker works with Victor to basically turn Max into their attack dog, sending him into violent, bloody conflicts with other gangs, even the Cracha Preto itself, to wipe them out and allow Becker and Victor to take credit for it and boost their publicity numbers.
Soon enough, Max ends up infiltrating Becker's police station to confront the man. Becker, simply laughing in smugness when Max confronts him with his crimes, manages to overpower Max with Victor's help, and the two flee to a nearby airport. Though sending the UFE to hold Max off, his troops opening fire on him in a crowded airport as citizens scream in terror nearly caught in the crossfire, Becker is ultimately dragged into a firefight with Max that ends with Becker blown to hell by his own grenade launcher exploding in his face, and though the player is then given the option whether to execute Becker or not, the man dies either way, whether from Max shooting him dead on the spot, or by succumbing to his wounds.
Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?
Naw, none at all here, Becker isn't....flourishing with character, but he's a smug dickhead dealing in organ trafficking, so can't expect Othello's Iago, here
And ultimately? No loyalty to Victor, at least none that can be proven. Becker is doing everything while getting paid, and the only interaction he has with Victor is that...they both are trying to hightail it out of the country. But there's zero actual proof that Becker feels anything for Victor except a money and power source.
Heinousness?
Now, Max Payne's got a high standard, no doubt, from game 1's Big Bad who turns dozens of people into drug crazed killers and has Max's wife and infant slaughtered, to Victor Branco himself, but when you get down to it? Becker is the enabling muscle to everything Victor does. Becker kidnaps dozens of people to be sold off and harvested of their organs, Becker has Rodrigo killed and Marcelo handed off to be burned alive, Becker is the one with the private military doing everything. Even if he mostly shares crimes with Victor, Becker's got extra nastiness to him in how he orchestrates neighborhood sweeps where thugs or even total innocents are executed on the spot just to frame the area as more violent in crime and justify more "disappearances."
Just to compare, Victor's other (sort of) right-hand, Alvaro Neves, who is the leader of the Cracha Preto...has nothing on Becker. Neves is an equally powerful military commander, but his crimes amount to a couple small murders and running the organ trafficking business. Becker, meanwhile, is the major contributing factor to said organ business, on top of the hellton of other murder and mayhem he gets up to using the UFE to kill people and selling info to crooks that get yacht partiers slaughtered.
Final Verdict?
I'd say Becker's a solid Keeper under the "just as bad as his boss" category The Dragon so rarely falls into.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Ego, Blood Mary and Becker
This is awkward, but this candidate I was thinking is an attempted serial killer who wanted to kill this production team of 10 including a teen altogether, kidnapping them and forcibly removing their finger to make it look they were killed, because he claims that they stole his idea and took advantage of his kindness, but then it's later revealed it's not the case at all. He was actually dropped from the team due to being holier then thou, and his kind behavior was just so they'd owe him, but when he became a hinderance he was dropped. Because of the success of the project, he became envious and enraged claiming they owe for being one of the first members and when confronted after saving the team, he blames claiming none of it would've happened if they just gave him what he wanted.
So?
Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - GiselleOkay, I'm putting my foot down. I know this may be unpopular, but after the work I did to trim King Snake, he's going up unless there's proof he doesn't count.
Here's the trimmed entry:
- Sir Edmund Dorrance abandoned his mistress and unborn son to rot in Santa Prisca's prison after he was blinded by government forces. Moving to Hong Kong and taking the name King Snake, Edmund takes over the heroin trade, using young gangs as Child Soldiers. When China was given the island, King Snake moved his operations to France and the US, but not before killing the wife and 2 children of a DEA Agent who tried to stop him, later brutally killing the agent himself. Not wanting Hong Kong to be "soiled" by Chinese hands, King Snake planned to release a Nazi-developed plague on the island. King Snake later took control from the Triads of Gotham's Chinatown, seeking revenge on Tim Drake, but was thought dead yet again when his forces turned on him and the Triads sent assassins. Still alive, King Snake joins the Kobra cult terrorist organization, and attempted to take control after its leader was disgraced. Forcing the cult to heal his eyes, King Snake was blinded when he attempted to kill Tim Drake when he came to save Danny Temple. Returning one last time, he once again tried to take over Kobra, this time assisted by his son, Bane. Before his death, King Snake shoots Bane multiple times, trying to murder his own son when Bane turned against him.
So 43 verified cutting Lawrence; we still cutting AM
?
Lighty, you still verifying that entry from that classic film from that other ban evader?
Sure to Bloody Mary and Becker.
Easy yes to Becker.
While I'm on the rewrite train, two from Bloodstained could be touched up...Gremory's writeup is missing two of her major crimes (she's behind the massacre of the village Miriam's allies take refuge in as well as murder of Miriam's mentor) and one totally erroneous one (Zangetsu's since been revealed to definitely be alive). Dominique's is okay but it's a touch awkward and repetitive, especially toward the end. Compare and contrast:
- Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night has the Big Bad Duumvirate:
- Gremory is the seeming right-hand of Gebel who is actually the force corrupting him, having driven him into evil and using him to unleash scores of demons on humanity to massacre countless innocents. Gremory seeks to possess the heroine Miriam to use her power to bring Bael, the Demon King, to the world to cause apocalyptic devastation, callously throwing aside Gebel to his death when he's freed from her control in favor with an alliance with Dominique, and even seemingly murders Zangetsu before her defeat.
- Dominique Baldwin is an exorcist who lost her faith in God after God did nothing to stop the demon invasion 10 years prior and thus desired demonic power to transcend any deity. To this end, she assists Miriam and Johannes, learning the art of alchemy and gathering Shards to fuse with herself. Hoping to use Miriam as a sacrifice to summon Bael, she sets Miriam against her childhood friend Gebel, hoping to corrupt Miriam enough to have Gremory possess her. When confronted, she attempts to murder Miriam, summon Bael and plunge the world into demonic carnage to sate her thirst for power. Using every seeming ally as a tool for her own ends, Dominique is nothing but a misanthrope with a lust for power.
- Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night:
- Gremory, the seeming right-hand of Gebel, is actually the force corrupting him and The Dragon to Bael, an Eldritch Abomination of a demon whom Gremory seeks to hand the entire world over to. Gremory is behind all of Gebel's evil, using him to unleash scores of demons upon humanity and having the village closest to the Hellhold ravaged and almost totally slaughtered by demons. Gremory callously throws Gebel aside to his death and lets him be slowly killed by his corruption when he's freed from her control in favor with an alliance with Dominique, and personally kills Miriam's mentor Alfred before her own defeat.
- Dominique Baldwin is an exorcist who lost her faith in God after God did nothing to stop the demon invasion 10 years prior and thus desired demonic power to transcend any deity. To this end, Dominique sets Miriam against her childhood friend Gebel, hoping to corrupt Miriam enough to have Gremory possess her and use her a sacrifice to Bael. Dominique is willing to plunge the entire world into demonic carnage all for the power to kill God himself and coldly acknowledges all love for her family swept up in the demonic attacks has long been consumed by her narcissistic crusade for power.
Edited by Scraggle on Dec 10th 2020 at 4:28:26 AM

No Psycho Man, Black Mask, yes to Ego and Terrax.
Here is the Carnage write up:
Edited by Overlord on Dec 9th 2020 at 7:20:58 AM