During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
King Snake.
Daddy Bane.
Question: was the Original version of Red Jack and/or Candlemaker discussed? I was considering them.
Edited by nwotyzal on Dec 8th 2020 at 11:39:55 AM
Right, so Rabbit over here (Great job on your first EP, buddy!) recommended a game based on Siren Head. I was hesitant at first, but having seen a long play, I think I can make a case for him.
What's the Work?
Siren Head is a 2020 fan game based on the popular art by one Trevor Henderson, Siren Head. While Trevor's characters have potential, it's mostly through Word of God. Even then, nothing from him suggests that Siren Head's anything more than a crafty predator.
Well, except in this fan game.
The plot is that a college student named Freddy Anderson wants to reconnect with his friends, and sets up a camping trip in the woods for them.
Three guesses for how wrong it goes.
Who is Siren Head
The tall, lanky Humanoid Abomination Serial Killer with a siren for a head, who shows a much more vicious personality here.
What's he Do?
After Freddy arrive to the woods at night, he go to the campsite, only to find the mangled corpse of one of his friends. Horrified, he goes around searching for them, finding their brutalized bodies all over the place.
During all of this, Fred's being chased around by Siren Head, who deliberately takes his time on capturing you, wanting to prolong your suffering. His kill animation is him picking you up and dropping you on the ground, and considering how huge he is, that's a pretty lethal fall.
What makes him stand out from other "Imma chase you all over the goddamn place" games, however, is that he actually talks to you, pretending to be a news reporter on the radio reporting on your actions, cruelly taunting you and blaming him for murdering his friends. He also describes his kills, at one point remarking that one friend he killed was hit by a immense force utterly mangling his body. Lastly, he makes random noises during the game to psychologically torture Fred, at one point playing a woman screaming that's implied to be one of his friends.
At the end, Fred manages to find shelter in an even bigger watch tower, where he calls the cops via radio, telling him to make a break for the nearby bridge. Siren Head, at this point dropping the News Guy persona, calls your attempts "Pathetic" and demands that you just lay down and die (which, yes, you can do). Ignoring him, you get out of the tower...
Only to see Siren Head sprinting towards you. Game Over.
This reveals two things. One, he was impersonating the police to lure you out into the open. And 2, he could've caught you at any time by simply running at you, but chose to play a game of cat and mouse just to prolong it.
Mitigating Factors?
First off, no Freudian Excuse, or Blue-and-Orange Morality here, just a sadistic killer.
Second, the main character has a name and backstory of someone who just wanted to get back together with his friends, and acts horrified at their corpses. Siren Head not only knows this, he actively taunts Fred about it, pinning the blame on him just to mess with him, and still rubbing it in that he ruined it.
Heinousness?
He's the only villain in his game, so that settles it.
Overall?
It's a short game, but there's a decent amount of meat to it, and enough to characterize this version of Siren Head.
So how's he looking?
Well, the player actually talks, being horrified by the stuff Heady did to his friends, and he also picks up a rifle , so he's courageous enough to try and fight him. And how many "Walking sim horror games" have The killer making morbid jokes about your predicament?
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Dec 8th 2020 at 12:22:47 PM
to King Snake/Sir Edmund Dorrance.
to Siren Head. It's one of those short horror games that doesn't have enough of a substantial plot to qualify. The main character has pretty much zero unique characterization and not many plot beats besides "Siren Head tricks and kills you."
Edited by DrUnknown on Dec 8th 2020 at 12:04:05 PM
I think that 43 had concerns about that Siren Head, but I think what Dr Unknown said was exactly those concerns.
Although I'm not sure if I'm remembering right, but didn't 43 say that he had concerns with Slenderman from The Arrival as well?
"It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times?"Yes to King Snake. Man, that thing about him fearing China would "ruin" Hong Kong became Harsher in Hindsight.
to Sir Edmund "King Snake" Dorrance (great first effort post Bunny).
I'll abstain on Sirenhead awaiting further confirmation.
Sircray: Oh that's great, it sounded an interesting series and I know you said their might be more candidates. The two you already got up were pretty interesting. I look forward to hearing all of them.
Siren head.
You know ive ep'd from a ton of short stories that end in downer endings but those works bother with giving those characters (victims and villains) charcterization so you can at least care whats going to happen. Here it sounds like you can replace him with a cardboard cutout and get the same result.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
for King Snake. So DC actually revealed the identity of Bane's father. And of course, he's a supervillain because comic books.
As for Siren Head.: Usually I’m wary of upvoting characters from these kind of Indie-horror games.
But after some consideration I think that he has enough personality to count. If he had just been pretending to be a news reporter, I would've downvoted him. Because that’s what the Goatman from Do You Copy did and we cut him for not having enough personality. But since the EP mentions him actively taunting the player and gloating about it kills, I think that’s enough to establish him as a character instead of a generic monster.
So Siren Head get’s a
for now.
Edited by NTG on Dec 8th 2020 at 12:33:25 PM
x6 I also recall 43110 had concerns about that incarnation of Slender Man, but someone defended that entry, stating that game had some background lore behind it and a plot that is just substantial enough to qualify. With this Siren Head game, there's no background lore or any unique characterization behind the characters besides the main character's fear (which is understandable in that situation, so that's hardly unique) and Siren Head (who's just a sadist with little character besides that).
Edited by DrUnknown on Dec 8th 2020 at 12:28:56 PM
Right, lemme try and expand on the Siren Head:
This isn't a Goatman situation where you never see him do anything and he just insults you. Well, Heady does mock you, but you actually see his victims corpses, he describes what he did to his victims, and he even guilt-trips you for this all happening over a simple camping trip between friends.
Speaking of which, the Main Character does have a backstory. Freddy Anderson was a high schooler who wanted to make up for neglecting his friends, and sets up a camping trip. When they go missing, he sets off to find him, with Freddy only saving himself when it's obvious SH killed all of them. He's also horrified at not only SH, but also his friends being dead, and SH does say that Fred is guilty about it at one point.
Is that enough?
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Dec 8th 2020 at 12:29:39 PM
