During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I have another candidate: Baron Gruda from The Crimson Pirate.
What is the work?
The Crimson Pirate is a 1952 adventure film. It has a pirate as the protagonist, but he's more of a swashbuckling anti-hero than the murderous thieves pirates usually are.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
Baron Gruda is the corrupt Spanish lord that rules with an iron fist and will do anything to further his career with the king. He enjoys using his power to bully others. He's introduced when the crew captures his ship as he's on his way to the island of Cobra to crush a rebellion. Gruda convinces captain Vallo to go to Cobra and capture El Libre, leader of the rebellion, promising him a reward far greater than anything he could gain from killing Cuda and selling his ship's weapons to the island. Vallo and his liutenant, Ojo, sail to the island to find El Libre.
After bringing back El Libre, along with his daughter Consuelo and another rebel named Professor Elihu Prudence, Captain Vallo realizes he is falling in love with Consuelo and can't bring himself to sell them out. He promises to release them before Baron Gruda can meet up for the exchange. His first mate Humble Bellows overhears this, and, enraged the crew will not get the reward they were promised, double-crosses Vallo by sending a message ashore to the baron, informing him of Vallo's intentions.
The next morning, Vallo attempts to return the three rebels to Cobra island, but is stopped by the sudden arrival of the baron and his men, who kill El Libre and capture Consuelo and the professor. Bellows and the baron then send Vallo and Ojo (who still remains loyal to his captain unlike the rest of the crew) out to sea with the professor to die.
Gruda soon proves himself a backstabber and betrays the pirate crew by drugging them with poisoned rum to knock them out. Instead of giving them a reward like he promised, he intends to sell them to the king, who will either execute them or keep them for forced labor. After betraying the pirates, the baron goes to shore, dictating that the rebellion has been crushed and that the people of the island will do whatever he and the king command. He first decrees that all the people will from that point on surrender all their fish to the baron. When a rebel spitefully states they won't fish at all if hey can't keep any of their catches, the baron has him beaten and dragged away to be whipped, declaring it mandatory that all the island's people fish for him. He also steals grain from the citizens.
Baron Gruda tells the captured Consuelo that she is to be married to the governor, whether she likes it or not. When she refuses, he shows her the man from earlier, who is being whipped, informing her that if she does not marry the governor, she and everyone on the island will be executed, and he'll save her for last so she can see everyone else go first. Next, when a crowd of people reads one of his oppressive proclamations, and one tries to tear it down, he has that person killed on the spot for defacing property, and the entire crowd killed for being "accomplices." He also dictates that everyone is required to attend the wedding.
In the meantime Vallo, Ojo, and the professor escape their dilemma by capsizing their skiff, trapping a large air pocket for them to breathe; walking along the sea bottom toward Cobra, they come ashore, where they quickly find out about the wedding. The professor gives his ideas for weapons to the people of the rebellion, allowing them to build them in secret. On the day of the wedding, the people unleash the advanced arsenal just before the ceremony, over-throwing the governor and his guards. Gruda flees to his ship with Consuelo, but Vallo and Ojo pursue him in a hot air balloon, stopping at the pirate ship to free the now repentant pirate crew. Bellows keeps the ship chasing after Gruda while the crew swims underwater to get to Gruda's ship. Bellows is killed when Gruda and his guards blow the ship to smithereens with their cannons, but the pirate crew make it aboard and defeat the guards, with Captain Vallo killing Gruda in a dual and saving Consuelo.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Nope. His goals are based around him lording over people and maintaining a strong relationship with the king.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
He has a crowd mass-executed for being present when someone tries to tear down a decree, has a man beaten and whipped for refusing to fish for him, threatens to execute the entire island if Consuelo does not marry the governor, and betrays the crew by trying to sell them to the king. The king does not appear, and the governor takes a backseat to him.
Final Verdict?
A strong yes.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Cartman... no, Hartman, and Gruda.
Write-up submitted for Madam Yiu; incidentally, despite having proposed 20+ candidates, Yiu is only my second lady CM. \_ O_o _/
EDIT: Just got back from reading the previous 2017 post about the Kokoe character someone linked a few pages back. Apparently the old Kokoe EP caused someone to quit this thread... and by extension, the entire website?
Edited by RobertTYL on Dec 3rd 2020 at 8:31:25 PM
Yes to Gruda.
Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Dec 3rd 2020 at 8:30:07 AM
Classic! Yes to Gruda.
Yes to Gruda.
Gruda.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Ultimate Moral Compass
Hartman and Gruda
to Gruda
Edited by G-Editor on Dec 3rd 2020 at 4:04:11 AM
to Baron Gruda.
to Gruda.
Woagh
Question: Has misery from Cave Story been discussed before?
Just curious.
to Hartman.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
yeah, and three times to boot. Wouldn't be surprised if she was out-Eviled by the good doctor.
Well, The Joker tried to do the same thing, and was A lot more malicious about it, even if he doesn't count either (Too Affable). That, and he cares for his raptors.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Dec 3rd 2020 at 6:53:51 AM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
I should hope so. The Doctor is listed.
Edit: I misread the question.
Edited by Beast on Dec 3rd 2020 at 7:05:40 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Speaking of villains who would've counted as a CM if they didn't had a tragic thing. I belive Rex Dangervest would've easily wuslified if it wan't ofr his sad backstory.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I think he fails the baseline, honestly.
, Also, the Lego movies don’t really have a tone conducive to accommodating a CM. They’re too comedic in tone and that applies to the villains too for the most part.
Rex may be presented more seriously, but yeah, I’m agreeing that even without that, he’s not heinous enough.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Dec 3rd 2020 at 7:09:49 AM
Current mood: sick of your shit
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Gruda.
Misery is not even close to keeping. She lacks agency due to being controlled by the Demon Crown (even if she created the thing, I highly doubt she meant to come under its spell), and while she does seem to enjoy her evil acts regardless, her boss kinda outheinouses her, since everything she does is under his command. Plus she has an unambiguous Pet the Dog moment when she sends Balrog to rescue Quote and Curly after they beat Ballos and the Sealed Chamber starts falling in on them. Whether she made a Heel–Face Turn or was just thanking them for freeing her from the Crown is unclear, but it definitely is not Pragmatic Villainy since she could have easily let them die but chose to save them, so either way it disqualifies her.
Edited by MasterN on Dec 3rd 2020 at 7:38:34 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Gruda
Hey we at least got all those BIONICLE baddies and that one LEGO Exo-Force guy, so LEGO is no stranger to C Ms (not counting licensed themes)
I looked at Captain Vidal's writeup, and is the last line really necessary?
- It's no accident that Vidal's place at the head of the table in the dinner scene parallels that of the Pale Man; each qualifies as a Monstrous Humanoid in his own way, one literal, one figurative.
IDK, it seems more like the writeup is just noting symbolism. I think it can be done away
really? What else was there to change, the writeup includes all the basics.
Edited by nwotyzal on Dec 3rd 2020 at 8:48:18 AM
Yes to Gruda and I think we elected to leave Vidal's entry alone because it was one people wanted to always tinker with. I guess you can ask Lighty if you really want that last part gone though.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
to Shark, the Koekoeken, Dr. Emil Hartman, and Baron Gruda.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to General Dru-Zod.
Another unapproved Complete Monster pothole I found, this time on the literature page for Asshole Victim. Any buffs on Arthurian Legend want to weigh in here?:
Either way, I cut the pothole and linked to the thread in my edit reason. Anyone who's interested can do an EP if they're so inclined.