During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Woagh
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Hmm. Never thought of him.
Does he get along with his minions?
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Sounds more professional than friendly, I'll give you that. I'll wait on what everyone else has to say.
Eh, why not, ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Zoddy boy.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Dec 3rd 2020 at 7:11:24 AM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Possible Villainous Friendship with Ursa (they consult on strategy together, and it's to her that Zod says that Superman cares about humans and what he intends to do), Bad Boss to Non; his reaction to Non being caged under an antenna during the Metropolis fight is to leave him there and he doesn't get much chance to react to them dying because he's the first killed. Plus he's this to Lex Luthor since Zod intends to kill him once he's no longer useful.
Edited by k410ren on Dec 3rd 2020 at 10:01:04 AM
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Yes to Zod.
KNEEEEEEEEL BEFORE ZOD!!!!!
Goku Black
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Zod
Remember Luther tries to sink california into the ocean in the previous film. Dont think killing some military sent to attack him first is particularly heinous enough...
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Shark. Abstain on Koekoeken and Zod though leaning yes to both.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
And yet Luthor is forced to Kneel Before Zod and is trying to not get killed by him throughout the time they spend onscreen together. Plus Zod is a multi-planetary threat given he attempted a coup on Krypton and slaughtered the astronaut crew on the Moon, and takes open glee in slaughter. And as said previously, Lex spends a bunch of his time throughout the series as comic relief. He'd count if he wasn't so campy; I didn't think he was worth it for that.
Edited by k410ren on Dec 3rd 2020 at 10:16:06 AM
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Goku Black
So that doesnt translate to deeds though.
Resources can't really apply here either since zod is both a kryptonian and takes over the us.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
to Zod. I think he does enough to count.
dont see how any of this makes Zod heinous enough?
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Dec 3rd 2020 at 6:23:33 PM
Goku Black
Okay I want to know where these upvotes are coming from when the previous villain tries to nuke a fucking state. Like he what kills a few people....
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Retracting my vote. It’s more the comic relief moments that make me doubtful.
For Zod or for Luthor?
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Zod beint a planetary threat makes his lack of actual action against his favor not for it
well the extended cut makes his crimes worse or at least, more fleshed out As in that version he gleefully mowed down four people.
Four whole people?
Goku Black
State of california >>> 4 people
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
He kills 10 in the Theatrical Cut (one astronaut, two civilians in Idaho, seven civilians in Metropolis) and 14 in the Richard Donner Cut (all of the above plus four soldiers at the White House). I think TvTropesFan234 meant the four as an addition.
Edited by k410ren on Dec 3rd 2020 at 10:29:27 AM
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
For Zod.
Abstain on Zod (I always wanted to say the Kneel line, explaining my last post)
Edited by nwotyzal on Dec 3rd 2020 at 7:35:57 AM
Lord of Hell
Killing 10 people in total would hardly ever be heinous enough for CM in a superhero film, let alone one in a franchise where someone tries to kill everyone in California.
Goku Black
Yeah even for the baseline for a superhero work this would be too standard.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Nay to Zod.
Settled then, a sad . Looks like Zod kneeled before Luthor in this scenario
New EP:
What is the work?
Superman is a film series starting with Superman: The Movie and starring the late Christopher Reeve as Superman, the Man of Steel. We all know the story: near the end of the life of the planet Krypton, their chief scientist Jor-El sends his son Kal-El to the planet Earth for his own safety, where he was adopted by Jonathan and Martha Kent under the identity Clark Kent. Clark leaves home, he learns he is from Krypton and for 12 years he is trained by a holographic memory of Jor-El to master his abilities, later journeying to Metropolis where he takes a job as a reporter and begins his work as a superhero.
This will be isolated to the quadrilogy of films starring Christopher Reeve, since Superman Returns apparently takes place in its own continuity (Martha is dead in Superman IV: The Quest for Peace but alive in Returns). This EP primarily concerns events in Superman II, including the Richard Donner Cut.
Who is the candidate and what does he do?
General Dru-Zod (Terence Stamp) was once Krypton's most trusted general, with his duties including maintaining Krypton's defenses. When the film begins, Zod, along with his two subordinates Ursa (Dark Action Girl) and Non (The Brute), have been arrested for attempting a coup; all three are condemned to the Phantom Zone. Before being taken away by the Phantom Zone, Zod declares that Jor-El and his heirs will bow down before him one day.
At the beginning of Superman II Zod, Ursa, and Non are still floating through space, the Phantom Zone having protected them from Krypton's destruction. Superman diverts a missile (in the Richard Donner Cut this is a nuke Lex Luthor attempted to launch at Hackensack, NJ from the first film) into space and the Phantom Zone is shattered, freeing the trio. The space criminals find that they have gained extra abilities, namely Super-Strength, Flight, heat vision, and super breath; landing on the Moon, they slaughter a team of astronauts that they encounter.
Arriving on Earth, Zod, Ursa, and Non take over a small town in Idaho, with Zod beginning to get bored with how little challenge the humans impose; two of them are killed by Zod while Ursa and Non dispatch a group of military soldiers sent to free the town. Learning that the military takes orders from the White House in Washington D.C., Zod, Ursa, and Non conduct a raid on the White House, killing everyone in their path (The Richard Donner Cut includes Zod gleefully mowing down four soldiers) and force the President to surrender.
Meanwhile, Lex Luthor breaks out of prison and meets up with Zod, offering to tell him where Superman is and an opportunity to kill him in exchange for Australia. Zod accepts; the trio goes to Metropolis, kidnaps Lois Lane, and holds the staff of the Daily Planet hostage to draw Superman out. When Superman arrives, a brutal fight breaks out over Metropolis, with Zod and his teammates alternating between targeting civilians to distract Superman while the others hit him, with Zod noting that Superman cares about the people (with Ursa comparing them to pets). Eventually Superman flies away to get Zod to stop targeting them, so Zod, Ursa, and Non (with Lois and Luthor in tow) pursue him to the Fortress of Solitude. Zod forces Superman to undergo the process to take his powers; however Superman tricks Zod and has the three Kryptonians depowered, breaks Zod’s hand, and tosses him into a crevice, while Non forgets he now can’t fly and falls into a crevice, while Lois punches Ursa into another. What happens after this depends; Zod and his subordinates are arrested in a Deleted Scene or Superman reverses time and puts them back in the Phantom Zone (Richard Donner Cut).
Mitigating Circumstances?
Zod has a couple of comedic moments, mainly due to his seriousness (he calls Earth "Planet Houston" until corrected), accidentally shoots himself (thanks to his Kryptonian body he completely walks this off), and remakes Mount Rushmore in the image of himself and his compatriots. Other than that however he’s played seriously. Motivations? Stamp's Zod is much more petty than, say the one from Man of Steel, at first enjoying being a Physical God with no one to stop him then wanting revenge on Jor-El through Kal-El even though Jor-El is the reason why he’s still alive (with Jor-El lampshading this after imprisoning the trio in the Phantom Zone in the first film). It's also clear that Zod doesn't have much intention of leaving Luthor alive once Superman is dead.
Heinousness?
Luthor is just as large of a threat, but spends just as much time as comic relief throughout the series (particularly in this one to contrast him with Zod) to the point it's deflated his chances of being a CM. Ross Webster, the Big Bad of Superman III has a Heel–Face Turn. Zod on the other hand tries to conquer Earth for the hell of it and gleefully mows down soldiers.
Kill Tally: 14 onscreen in the Richard Donner Cut, 10 in the Theatrical Cut.
Verdict?
Unsure, given the different cuts and continuities.
Edited by k410ren on Dec 3rd 2020 at 10:08:27 AM
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills