During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Who's Hans?
Headmaster (always thought he was insufficient, Hate Sink for sure, but no CM)
Oh, right.
Edited by nwotyzal on Nov 21st 2020 at 4:31:13 AM
So uh gabe. Could we remove the bolded lines here
I've seen the page for Dance in the Vampire Bund back in the day, and, as someone not familiar with the series, I'm curious why the 3rd Lord Li doesn't count. They all sound like monsters.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Nov 21st 2020 at 4:46:30 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.Li doesn't do much. After the game where they hunt akira. He just leaves.... and rozenmann and ivanovic take over who then do a shit ton of atrocities of Their own.
Like he doesn't have any signature crimes of his own and he needs to be at least as bad as the other two to qualify on his own.
Edited by miraculous on Nov 21st 2020 at 4:48:41 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."-Cracks Knuckles-
By popular demand, here's the EP for Captain Dread.
What's the work?
You guys know the drill by now. We're talking once again about that site we all played as kids and then are surprised to realize still exists. Today, the plot is one of the earliest ones...well, if you can even call it a plot.
"Curse On Maraqua", and its villain, the evil pirate Captain Dread.
Who is he?
Captain Dread was a pirate who ran a protection racket to extort the undersea kingdom of Maraqua, which at this point was an ancient, thriving city of mostly Koi and other aquatic pets. When the king of Maraqua refused to pay due to bad harvests, Dread swore revenge. The very next day, a giant whirlpool swallowed the entire city. Maraqua was wiped off the map for several years, both in real life and in-universe. Certain characters had to relocate to Mystery Island, and the city was left as a bunch of ruins, which still exist to this day outside the rebuilt city.
What I can say about this event is that it almost certainly caused more than a few deaths. The pet species Koi became limited edition after this, due to their population suffering in the destruction. That's basically the equivalent of being an endangered species- their numbers shrunk significantly. We also know that there was a massive black storm just before the whirlpool started, and that an examination of the ruins revealed no survivors.
...And that's all we know about Dread and what he did. Come "Curse Of Maraqua", he was gone and Scarblade was in, because Scarblade wasn't as hard to draw. When I just searched for any extra lore on the website, which every other villain had in some form, Dread had nothing. No Neopedia article, not even an entry in the "Gallery of Evil", unlike his successor. It's even possible that Dread was just retconned into being Scarblade, considering the line that references Scarblade taking part in the first destruction of the city. Dread doesn't even get his own random event!
Mitigating Factors
Nah. He's just an evil pirate, so there's nothing redeeming. The big issue we have is that he's a very minor, forgotten-about villain whose crimes were super heinous for the work, but he gets next to no characterization or lore. He's basically just a menacing, sword-wielding skull that vanished after one single act of evil.
Heinous Standard?
IDK tbh. He had the same plan as Scarblade, which was to eradicate Maraqua. He actually succeeded for a short time, unlike Scarblade, but I understand that success isn't what we consider here. His actions were pretty messed up to be sure and the protection racket angle gives him a unique niche, but he's just so damn underdeveloped that I'm not sure he really sticks out compared to Scarblade, despite being the OG Maraqua-hating pirate.
Conclusion?
As fun and dark as Dread is, and as much as I'd love to say that Neopets has four CM characters, I just can't get behind him. The lore simply isn't there. We don't have enough information on him. Unless you guys think his actions were bad enough to make this issue a non-factor, then...
Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 21st 2020 at 8:04:24 AM
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallHe does have dialogue; I admit that for Dread I had to rely on mostly the Jellyneo coverage of the plot
, which is usually very thorough but can skip over smaller details. His quotes currently posted on that site are:
"Hurry it up ya scurvy dog, we don't have all day,"
and
"Less of yer lip now... do ya' have our payment now?"
As for seeing King Kelpbeard "IN HELL", I think he does say that but I can't currently confirm it myself. The original plot comic is in a shockwave file, which my new computer isn't able to open. 'Tis the problem with some of these ancient plots; some of the comics are just unreadable, either due to the flash no longer working or just because they've glitched out / have been deleted.
That line of dialogue would basically just confirm what we already do know about him, which is that he fully intended for Maraqua to be destroyed, and that's not just referring to the city buildings.
Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 21st 2020 at 8:42:26 AM
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallWhat's everyone think of this for a CM quote?
- "This was only the first of many meals he would take. He'd gorge on anything that took his fancy, and nobody would stop him — not this time. And when he was ready, he'd throw those pretenders off his throne; he'd cremate them in their houses; he'd slaughter their children and wear their infants' bowels as necklaces."
— Rawhead Rex
Edited by Stellarvore on Nov 21st 2020 at 8:21:08 AM
I think...
for Dread right now.
In other news, in honor of the new World of Warcraft expansion releasing in two days, I'm quite tempted to go ahead and do an effort post on Sylvanas Windrunner. She frankly threw out her last redeeming quality in the pre-patch so I think I could put up a convincing enough effort post at this point to push her through. The main thing of course is that she is a main villain of this new expansion so a wait and see is probably better off. For precedence, I did get Gul'dan put up at right before the Legion expansion wherein he died.
Regardless, I think she's an easy keep at this point but I wouldn't put it past Blizzard to pull a last minute bullshit excuse to redeem her. Oh well.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Yes. Read back a few pages; we just upvoted Sloth, Scarblade, and Razul.
Shocked me too if I'm being honest.
So with the exception of Dread, who doesn't seem like he'll be getting approved, I'll make the write-ups tonight or tomorrow.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallI have an unusual, but deeply, deeply disturbing example, from one Ray Bradbury's 1948 story, The October Game. This is what happens when a father's insecurity about his place in the family overwhelms any genuine love he has for them...and you'll soon find out why.
This story was adapted into Shock Suspenstories issue 9, 1943. You can view a reading here.
Mitch Wilder
Who Is He?
Our story begins with a man putting away a revolver in his desk drawer, thinking, "No, Not that way. Louise wouldn't suffer that way. She would be dead and it would be over and she wouldn't suffer." He looks out his window at the frolicking children outside in the Autumn air. This is Mitch Wilder, and he's not a happy man, especially this year. He's never liked October, but something about the season just brings all his frustration to the surface. He's been in an unhappy marriage with his wife Louise for years. She and their little daughter, Marion, are preparing for Halloween, and they don't have time for him.
You see, Mitch had been desperate for a child, but Louise was hesitant. Mitch had pressured her into taking his child, and Louise' bitterness toward him had lasted all through the pregnancy and beyond. When the baby was born, Mitch was shocked to see a blond haired baby girl, rather than a dark haired son in his own image. The doctor had told him Louise would never have another child. Mr. Wilder simply couldn't relate to his own child. Outside, Louise is welcoming guests, and little Marion is trying on her skeleton mask, which her dad had assured her would "scare the beans of em."
As the children and their parents gather for a Halloween party, Mitch contemplates divorce. But no, that'd make Louise happy. He wanted to hurt her,take away what she most loves, legally...take away Marion.
Then Mr. Wilder suddenly becomes animate with Halloween cheer and goes down to greet the guests. For the next few hours he takes over the party, guiding folks through musical chairs, pin the tail on the donkey, etc. Soon comes the main event. With all the lights out, he guides the kids downstairs on a slide they installed for the party. "The Cellar!" he gasps, "The tomb of the witch!" And the parents all chuckle at his enthusiasm.
As everyone gathers downstairs, Marion is about to go down. Mitch picks her up to help her down.
Everyone sits in a circle in the dark. Mitch comes down for a party game. "The witch is dead, and this is the knife that killed her." He passes around a sharp knife and the kids feel it in the dark. Then, "The witch is dead, and this is her head." And so on. All the kids giggle as more strange feeling items are passed around in the dark, with one boy claiming he knows how this game is played with chicken innards and grapes for organs and eyes. "The witch came to harm, and this is her arm." As the game goes on, a few kids start to get queasy and run from the circle. When Louise tries to reassure Marion, her daughter doesn't respond. She calls out for Marion, but Mitch just stands by the stairs calmly, reassuring his wife Marion is alright. As the night goes on and the strange game goes on, Louise grows more fearful. She calls out over and over for the little girl to no avail. In the confusion, someone says to turn on the lights, but Louise begins to realize something horrible. She frantically starts screaming, begging them not to turn on the lights, terrified of what she'll find. One boy runs upstairs to look for his friend. He searches around the house calling over and over inside and around the yard. Then he returns to the basement, and some idiot turns on the lights....
Can you figure out what happened to Marion?
Heinousness
Cutting to spoilers,it's all but stated that Mitch Wilder killed and dismembered his own 8 year old daughter passing around her remains to unsuspecting party guests to spite his wife. I can honestly think of few people in a short story(much less a Ray Bradbury story) who would resort to such a depraved low. And even if it's just one murder, the manner which he did was horrific and affects not only his daughter, but his wife and all the innocents in that cellar. Poor Louise will be lost in grief for her only child, while Marion's friends will know they've been playing with their friend's dismembered body. All because one pathetic, insecure man grew to hate his wife. Out of this one horrific act of spite, he traumatized a community and possibly destroyed his wife's sanity. A Shou Tucker-type monster if I ever saw one.
Mitigating Factors
Mitch is a Villain Protagonist, so we get quite a bit of time in his head. We get mentions of his time at his grandmother's house, how he even pitied that he couldn't love his family the way he wanted. We realize he's an ordinary, but insecure man who wanted a family. But the thing is, he brought all his misery on himself. He forced his wife to have a child and drove himself insane with dissatisfaction over the life he couldn't have. He destroyed his family out of twisted entitlement and while he may have been a well-meaning guy at first, his crime proved what a deeply misogynistic, selfish psychopath he became.
Verdict
For just one murder, Mitch Wilder may yet be one of the most vile, sickening characters ever associated with Halloween. Forget Michael Myers, forget Oogie Boogie, forget Sam. This story shows how far the common american man can outclass some of the scariest monsters in fiction with one horrible deed.

Cut Mengsk (Happy birthday)
Edited by ASghhrv6ub on Nov 21st 2020 at 6:59:23 AM
I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me Blaine