During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Also, hate to say it, guys, but I've got an unfortunate cut to suggest...
Arcturus Mengsk from Starcraft. Don't get me wrong, he is absolutely awful, a selfish tyrant responsible for countless deaths. The novel I, Mengsk reveals that his care for his sister Dorothy was genuine. His You Killed My Father motivations towards the Terran Confederacy was genuine, and several sources confirm Mengsk did desire revenge for his mother and sister's murder at least.
While Mengsk is a heartless tyrant later who is willing to kill his own son to keep control? There's no "almosts" here. If someone who knows the series as well wants to chime in, by all means, but all the evidence I've seen appears to clearly state Mengsk has loved ones for whom he never renounced care for.
Cut Mengsk.
Looking at discussion date page, i noticed it says 1.12.2020 for Assassin's Creed Valhalla. Since the game was released in 10.11.2020 shouldn't be 24.11.2020? Unless RPG are three weeks.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Scarblade
Sadly cut Megnst, but happy birthday Lighty and only a few days after mine (hope it’s appropriate to ask but how old are you now Lighty?)
Gentle Laborer
Scarblade. Happy birthday, Lighty! The perfect opportunity for a new effort-post.
What is the work? To your and my surprise, the original Mobile Suit Gundam. The year is UC 0079, the Principality of Zeon has declared a war of independence on the Earth Federation, both sides are rapidly losing numbers, the only hope of combating the revolutionaries lies with the Federation's newest and most advanced mobile suit, the titular Gundam. After ending up Falling into the Cockpit, the seemingly Ordinary High-School Student Amuro Ray has to deal with the horrors of war, what it means to be a soldier, and endless slaps from his superior officer. Zeon's high-command are some of the worst war criminals in fiction, and let's not even get into the supreme leader himself, we're going to be discussing a character that is rarely talked about.
Who is he? One of Gihren Zabi's direct—and worst—loyalists, Colonel Asakura, a ruthless and apathetic technical officer within the Principality of Zeon, is a minor but pivotal antagonist in the tragic history of the One Year War. Slimy, abrasive and cowardly, Asakura is described as an "enemy of humanity", he was involved in the development of the infamous G3, a deadly nerve agent that would be used by both the Principality of Zeon and later the Titans to commit genocide against space colonies, including the one that was dropped on Earth as part of Operation British. At the end of the war, Asakura supervised the construction and management of the Solar Ray System, which was created by evicting the residents of Mahal from their homes and turning the whole colony into a superweapon to be used on the Earth Federation. Under Gihren's orders, Asakura remorselessly fired the Solar Ray at an entire fleet, killing countless people.
Re-appearing in Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory's spinoff Mayfly of Space and the OVA's manga adaptation, it's here that we get to see the worst aspects of his sociopathic personality: During the early days of the One Year War, Asakura tricked Cima Garahau and the Zeon marines into massacring a colony by claiming that they would be incapacitating the people inside with sleeping gas to suppress riots and to give a "warning" to other colonies who don't follow Zeon when they were actually releasing G3 into the air system, overseeing the massacre and pinning all the blame on them just so he could have a way to avoid a bad reputation for the atrocities that he committed and join The Remnant with no repercussions. Manipulated, discarded, and traumatized for life by the actions of a genocidal maniac, she tried to have her revenge but was intercepted by fellow pilot Anavel Gato, Cima now had no choice but to go into hiding somewhere else . Ladies and gentlemen, your first Gundam Karma Houdini.
Mitigating Qualities? None, Asakura is on the same boat as the other Gihren loyalists, with the exception that he lacks the sense of honor of some of them. I should also add that 0083: Rebellion is a re-telling of the OVA that simply expands on existing material.
Heinous? War criminals are everywhere in the Universal Century, take a look for yourself, Gihren Zabi himself has to be one of the most evil villains in anime. However, for such a secondary character, I honestly believe that his role in developing, managing and using not one but two weapons of mass destruction for a space dictatorship (with the addition of what he did to Cima and the marines) takes him one step further. It's no wonder why Gihren trusted this guy. His character profile says it all:
- "Whether it is the Solar Ray System or G3 Gas, both of them were invented as weapons of mass destruction. Despite all these, as the executioner of those foolish acts, Asakura still can't escape the responsability of ending tens of thousands of lives. He later blamed the deployment of G3 Gas on Kycilia Zabi and her subordinates. To evade responsability like that, one can only describe him as a shameless coward, because those were indeed his crimes committed with his own hands."
Conclusion?
Asakura
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Mengsk
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Cut Arcturus, yes to Asakura. Where is this character profile?
Happy b-day Lighty!
Edited by ACW on Nov 21st 2020 at 4:53:13 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to Asakura
Goku Black
Asakura (Doubt he's the first gundam karma Houdini ? Isn't their Yazan Gable too ?)
Cut Mengsk
Happy birthday Lighty.
Edited by miraculous on Nov 21st 2020 at 2:17:31 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I can't fucking sleep (mostly because I lost my phone, which would be my alarm, and I work at 8 tomorrow so I can't take the risk and would rather just pull an all-nighter and power through my shift), so I wanted to say "Screw it, here's Galem..."
But I can't. Reading the plot comic, Galem isn't as evil as I thought. Oh, he's a bastard for sure, but he has a lover he seems to care for and gets betrayed so often (including by said lover) that it's hard to call him the worst.
His lover? We don't know much about her, other than that she's a Wild Card with Chronic Backstabbing Disorder who encouraged Kanrik to betray Galem one minute, then exiled and poisoned Kanrik the next. She ditches Galem and the other thieves but then swears revenge on Kanrik and Hannah when they save the day.
But there's one more villain in this plot. The Bringer of Night. A giant beast that attacked the Bori tribe in the backstory, sending them all hiding in the ice caves. It's outright said that people were killed by him. He's brutal and betrays Galem after helping him find the magic stone- and his interest in the stone isn't the eternal life powers, but that destroying it would kill the Bori off. Like Scarblade with Maraqua, but more of a magical genocide than a murderous invasion. He's capable of summoning an army of ice-warriors to boot. The Book of Evil calls him a "demigod of death and destruction" and seeks only to destroy everything in his path, including the Bori. My concern with him though is that we don't really know if he's got moral choice and he's mostly just portrayed as a monster- not a sentient being.
So that's it for the "Hannah and the Ice Caves" plot. Instead, I might try my hand at someone I'd originally decided to pass over due to characterization concerns. But he's heinous enough, so why not try? That'll be the next post. This is already too long.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
to Scarblade and Asakura, Funtime Freddy, "Caught" serial killer and Mengsk. Happy birthday Lighty.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
What's the work?
Neopets. Lets bring it on home with the villain that inspired me to do these EPs, despite that I'd almost decided to pass on actually discussing him.
Today we're talking about the "Lost Desert" plot. As far as plots go, this one was a complicated puzzle with a lot of confusing steps, but it had a pretty cool story and cool characters. Basically, Sakhmet got sent to a different, nightmarish dimension and had to battle against the army of Qasala. Players had to do some extremely complex puzzles to save the day, while in the comics two of the heroes avoided the dimensional kidnapping and were trying to save Sakhmet from the other side.
Now, the original villain of the plot was the Qasalan prince Jazan. But Jazan isn't our candidate. He's not evil. He's trying to lift a curse from his people and make Qasala not only exist again, but thrive again. At the end of the story, and in all other appearances, he's a firmly heroic character.
No, we're talking about Jazan's father. Emperor Razul.
Who is Razul?
Razul was the emperor of Qasala back before it fell to ruins. He sought power at all cost and desired immortality. His quest for eternal life is what made him curse his own city, dooming everyone including his own son. His son was left believing that marrying the princess of the neighboring Sakhmet would lift the curse, which drove Jazan to invading Sakhmet out of pure desperation. And yet, when Jazan and the royal-blooded Nabile to get married and return to Qasala, nothing has changed- his city is still a mess of ruins and scarabs, and his people still cursed.
That's when Razul comes back and attacks Sakhmet, trying to destroy the city for imprisoning him. He was freed by his son's marriage. Turns out this whole curse thing was just a ploy to give himself eternal life- he tricked his own son into enacting a desperate and ultimately pointless quest with the sole purpose of it ressurrecting him and granting immortality. When Jazan tried to save Nabile, he mocked him, calling him an embarrassment and a "love sick fool" and claims he should've "killed you years ago". He attacks with fire and sorcery and effortlessly defeats all opponents, until finally defeated by a special weapon, which manages to weaken him- not before he corners princess Amira and Nabile, though, and announces his intentions to destroy the rest of Neopia later.
Mitigating Factors?
Let's see. He openly taunts and tries to murder his own son, destroyed his own people for some power and intended to murder the citizens of Sakhmet- and Neopia as well.
Nope. Not seeing any redeemable qualities.
Heinous Standard?
As discussed, he's far from the only "invasion" villain. But he's a bit different. Instead of fighting for his kingdom or looking to destroy one specific place/species, he's out to destroy all of Neopia and merely starts with Sakhmet. He destroyed his own city and forced his son to pick up the pieces in a quest to save his people, only for it to just a cruel trick.
You may be asking- if he's such a cruel bastard, why was I hesitant to EP him? I was honestly worried he didn't have enough characterization. But I think his actions in the backstory and for the few scenes he has in the plot comic prove me wrong there.
Conclusion
Yes. I think Razul is our third and final Neopets keeper.
Thank ya'll for indulging me on this weird deep-dive into the dark lore of a kid's site. I knew if nothing else this project would be fun. I'm glad we got two keepers out of it- can we get all three? That's for you guys to decide.
Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 21st 2020 at 6:01:49 AM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Scarblade and Razul.
I think you should EP Dread as well, unless you're sure he doesn't count.
Will these go to Web Original, Video Games, or Other Media (Multimedia)?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I can take a look at Dread. Maybe Sunday when I've hopefully rested.
I think they go in Web Original. Neopets is always under "Websites" or "Web Original" folders.
Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 21st 2020 at 6:26:48 AM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Happy birthday Lighty! And cut Mengsk. I haven`t read those books but I will trust your judgement.
Yes to Asakura and Razul.
Cut Mengsk.
Happy birthday, Lighty.
Asakura and Razul
Edited by WatTambor on Nov 21st 2020 at 4:21:58 AM
Asakura, Neopets trio
Cut the Starcraft dude.
Happy birthday 🎉 Lighty
Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
to Captain Scarblade and Emperor Razul.
Cut Mengsk.
Happy birthday Lighty
Goku Black
Razul
to Asakura, Razul
Happy Birthday, Snake!
Showtime!
Happy Birthday, @Lightysnake!
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
And it's now my b-day
I don't think we did discuss tht Yakuza...go for it