During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
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I think he was brought up downvoted for being too comedic but I can't remember. (also careful with your caps)
I think they accidentally hit Caps instead of shift and didn't notice. That's why the rest of the letters that should be caps are lowercase
Edited by Libraryseraph on Nov 19th 2020 at 10:29:43 AM
HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIAThe makers of Hitman have announced a James Bond prequel game
Hey guys, I've just found a Tvtropes reveiw for God of War titled Complete Monster: the game
. The reviewer seems convinced that Kratos counts.
As a low-key fan of this series, I can safely say that he doesn't count at all.
Since it was released in 2013, should I just leave it alone? People are entitled to their opinions, after all.
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Okiedokie. Just curious, that's all.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Nov 19th 2020 at 10:59:53 AM
I say leave it alone. That's just their personal opinion and there's no reason to rake them over the coals for not using the term the way we do, especially since it happened over 7 years ago. TBH, I'm not even sure the current standards for the trope were established at the time, though I was only on this wiki sporadically until around 2015 or thereabouts, so I could be wrong about that.
As someone who played all the God of War games, especially loved the PS 4 one, and is extremely hyped for Ragnarok, Kratos doesn't even come close to counting, even before the PS 4 game came out.
Also, Malbert was downvoted when I brought him up a while back. Looking back at that..... It's not my proudest moment.
I'm not very familiar with this cleanup project, but one of my examples was removed with a link to this thread, so as I understand it, I need to make one of these effortpost things.
Here was the example as I had written it on the Chaos Seeds page:
- Complete Monster: Heman in book 7. A fellow human from Earth, in his old life he was in what he referred to as the "information-gathering business", and even back then he was obsessed with the idea of torture and mentions that he ordered the deaths of wives and children. Now in The Land, he lives out his sadistic fantasies, raping and torturing others and killing as many other chaos seeds as he can.
And here's the effortpost:
What is the Work Chaos Seeds is a book series where the main character, and millions of other humans, are playing a video game when suddenly they're transported into "The Land", a magical RPG Mechanics 'Verse that the game was based on. (People this have happened to are referred to as "chaos seeds" to differentiate them from the people native to The Land.) This is their life now, and the main character Richter goes about gaining power and making a name for himself, trying to use it for the good of others.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
The candidate is a character who goes by the name Heman, who is another human from Earth. At first he seems to be friendly and gains the trust of Richter, which is why the example I had written above is spoilered. It turns out that he actually has special powers to forcibly gain someone's trust. Once he gets Richter on his own, he tortures him and attempts to kill him, giving a rant about his past and how he'd managed to do this (in order to buy time to kill both Richter and his familiar).
First of all, Heman is racist toward to the main character, Richter, who is black. He explains that he was once in "the information-gathering business" on Earth. During this time, he ordered the deaths of many wives and children, and he says he watched people die in many ways. He also was fascinated by the idea of crucifixion and put in a request to his superior to do it to someone, but was denied, and he murdered said superior in revenge.
Once Heman was brought into The Land, he gained power over an army of monsters. He would capture prisoners, coercing women into sex in exchange for their lives, or raping and torturing them if they didn't agree. He eagerly describes in detail how he found another woman from Earth and proceeded to do this to her repeatedly until she ran out of lives and died for good. He discovered that killing other former Earthlings would give him useful "chaos points" along with a drug-like high, and this gave him extra incentive to kill as many as he could (and it turns out he had murdered 15 other chaos seeds before getting to Richter, though we don't know how many non-Earthlings he had also killed). He tells Richter that if Richter respawns and tries to go after him, he'll slaughter all of the men and women in Richter's village and blind all the children before selling them into slavery.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
There's some sympathy to be had for Heman in that when he was brought to The Land, he was immediately enslaved and abused by monsters until he discovered how his new abilities worked and used those to gain power over them. Due to his actions before being brought to The Land though, he clearly was a bad person before this ever happened.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Yes. Other characters in the books are mostly just normal - generally good - people. Even the other villains don't take the same perverse pleasure he does in his actions. He does these things because he enjoys it.
Final Verdict?
I believe he counts.
for Heman.
Today is My Birthday (actually it's not) is an FPS survival horror game released just before Halloween this year. You play as Thomas, a young man who just turned twenty-five years old who decides to head to Wonder Park, a former amusement park his deceased father used to take him to every birthday. However, during his travels to the park, he finds himself low on gas for his motorcycle and decides to pull over on the side of the road.
In the middle of the night.
Far away from civilization.
You can guess how the plot goes from there.
Who Are They?
Dr. M. Richards is the leader of a human organ harvesting ring, while the Sheriff oversees all of the illegal operations going on within the community, including said organ ring.
What Do They Do?
Prior to the game, Dr. Richards was a veterinarian who got fired from his job for abusing and killing animals. At some point in the future, he started to continue with his mutilation skills and went into harvesting organs. The Sheriff also found out about Richards schemes and allowed him to conduct the organ harvesting without other law enforcement officials sabotaging their illegal activities. This has gone on for at least two years, with countless victims to Richards and the Sheriff's collection. The two of them also have various killers working for them, most of whom do all the dirty work. When Thomas wanders around the forest region near Wonder Park, he encounters Barney B., who's in the process of hacking up one of his recent victims. Thomas manages to escape Barney and enters Wonder Park. As he traverses through the ruins of the amusement park, he comes across more bodies, organs left in pails, creepy, sentient dolls that try to kill him, and a chainsaw-wielding maniac named William. Luckily, Thomas manages to maneuver his way past all of them and finds an elevator that'll lead him to safety.
Unfortunately, one of the sentient dolls cuts the cable, and the elevator drops down to the entrance to Dr. Richards' lair. While inside, Thomas witnesses the doctor murdering Barney (who's addicted to painkillers) after the clown demands more pills to finish working. Later, Thomas kills a grunt named Hammer in self-defense and eventually runs into Dr. Richards himself, who injects him with poison and plans on removing his kidneys and spleen. Thomas once again manages to escape, only to encounter a cannibalistic cult run by a woman named Dorothy. After Thomas fights off and kills Dorothy, he finds a radio in the cult's cave and gets ahold of the Sheriff. The Sheriff agrees to pick up Thomas at a nearby gas station, provided he can get there. Once Thomas eludes more cultists, he runs to the gas station and is picked up by the Sheriff. The two of them talk for a bit, but Thomas gets paranoid when the Sheriff asks about his camera, which leads to two possible endings.
If you give up the camera, the Sheriff holds onto it, before confessing that he's in charge of all the crime in the area—human organ harvesting, prostitution, etc. Thomas freaks out and grabs the truck's wheel, swerving the vehicle off the road into a tree. Thomas drags himself out of the truck just in time for the cops to arrive. With the photos Thomas has on his camera, the cops are able to arrest the Sheriff and all of his accomplices.
If you don't give up the camera, the Sheriff pulls over to the side of the road alongside a group of "foresters." Turns out they're all people working for the Sheriff, along with the harvesting ring. Thomas is recaptured, and his body is chopped up with the parts sold a week later.
It's implied that Dr. Richards is mentally unstable. While it's true that he's not all there in the head, he's fully competent and pragmatic, he knows what he's doing is morbidly revolting, but he does it anyway. He's also smart enough to flank Thomas when he tries to escape in a vent, and he kills Barney solely because he knew he was incompetent and his drug problem would ruin their operation. The Sheriff, meanwhile, is the most sane person in the game.
Other Mitigating Factors?
None. The Sheriff behaves nicely around Thomas, but it’s all just for show. And if you don’t give up the camera, he immediately has Thomas sent back to have his organs carved out of him.
Heinous Standard Issues?
I'll jot down all the main villains and why they don't count.
Barney is initially The Heavy, but he's just The Brute. He's the one who kidnaps/kills many of the people for the harvesting ring (and he certainly enjoys doing it), but he's not running the operation. Dr. Richards and the Sheriff are.
Hammer doesn't count. It's implied he was one of the kidnapped victims who cut a deal with Dr. Richards: if he guarded the other prisoners and killed any other intruders, the doctor wouldn't cut out his liver. Various notes indicate that Hammer isn't even evil; he just wants to become an artist, but is stuck underground living beneath the doctor's boot.
Dorothy doesn't count. She has a son she loves.
Dorothy's son doesn't count. He has no lines of dialogue and is just a boss standing between Thomas and the exit to Dorothy's cult cave.
William doesn't count. Unlike Dr. Richards, he is mentally unstable. Instead of killing one of the victims, he kept her locked inside a cage and impregnated her, hoping that he could start a family with her in some kind of twisted fantasy he wanted.
Really that just leaves the Sheriff and Dr. Richards. Neither of them necessarily do much onscreen, but there is a plethora of evidence linking them to what they did. Notes are scattered about in the game talking about people going missing. Dr. Richards has a checklist of organs he sold/intends on selling. There's at least half a dozen corpses you come across you have to photograph as evidence. Thomas comes across seven victims locked inside of cells who will be harvested soon. There's video footage of Barney hacking up bodies, showing off the organs he collected, and even placing the packaged organs onto the back of the Sheriff's pickup truck. Even the Sheriff is implied to be directly involved, as one newspaper note mentions that a journalist dug up dirt about the Sheriff's illegal activities. Then all of a sudden, he went missing. We can assume the Sheriff killed him and probably had Dr. Richards sell his organs.
Even with Dorothy's cannibal cult involved (where we only see a few bodies), I feel like they still pass it.
Tasteless Trash?
Cannibalism, organ harvesting, forced impregnation, offal, etc. are all involved in the game. But it's not the point of the game. Most of the really gritty crimes, like the rape impregnation and the cannibalism stuff, mostly happens off-screen. We only find out about it via notes and the corpses left behind. There are brief moments where we see Barney hacking a body and Dorothy's son eating what is presumably human flesh, but it doesn't get more explicit than that.
It's basically Diet Outlast.
Final Verdict?
Pass.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
To Herman and Richards.
Not bad for a first EP, Dawnwing.
Edited by Kappaclystica on Nov 19th 2020 at 12:56:39 PM
@jackie: It's in July. There's a high chance I would've forgotten about it by then.
So are these votes for Richards and the Sheriff, or just Richards?
Edited by Tyk5919 on Nov 19th 2020 at 4:08:36 AM
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.

Edited by ACW on Nov 19th 2020 at 10:26:15 AM