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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#236727: Nov 18th 2020 at 6:45:15 AM

Anyone know the answer to my question on the last page?

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#236728: Nov 18th 2020 at 6:49:18 AM

I have no idea... I had a hand in that entry only because I was asked to trim it. Can't comment on whether the deeds are accurate.

SkylaNoivern Since: Sep, 2016
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#236730: Nov 18th 2020 at 6:59:28 AM

Yes there btw and another compliment for your EP quality!

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#236731: Nov 18th 2020 at 7:17:24 AM

[up][up] I'm guessing Denise goes before Lucrezia?

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#236732: Nov 18th 2020 at 7:21:04 AM

[tup] to Spring-Heeled Jack and Denise Daniels.

Bullman: Yeah they were originally meant to be the same incarnation. Originally him being so seriously decayed and near death was a way of bringing the character back after Rodger Delgado's untimely death.

Later expanded materials introduced the idea of him being a failed regeneration or a different incarnation, to explain why they didn't look or act anything alike. But in the show, nothing like that has ever been suggested.

captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#236733: Nov 18th 2020 at 7:21:29 AM

[tup] Zuwa, Runeard, Jack and Denise

To answer Bulls question about the Master, the Decayed master is the same incarnation as the UNIT one but badly, badly falling to pieces (partly as it's The Other Darrin). That's my understanding at least.

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#236735: Nov 18th 2020 at 7:41:29 AM

MGD did the substance for the entry and they know Doctor Who quite well, I'm inclined to trust them.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#236736: Nov 18th 2020 at 7:45:27 AM

Okay, this is probably too long:

  • The Conspiracy (season 5): Denise Daniels is the head of the Space and Aeronautics Research Agency and The Chessmaster behind Ad Astra. Obsessed with human enhancement, Denise had attempted to create an invincible race of artificial humans for years. She had raised her first experiment and daughter, Rozetta Pierre, into having a superiority complex, only to quickly abandon her after she turns out to be no different than any other humans besides her intelligence. This in turn causes Rozetta to become a social outcast, with her attempts to impress her mother falling on deaf ears. When the meteor dropped a year prior to the plot, Denise manipulates Rozetta into building a dome and extracting the meteorite's Berzelium, hoping to brainwash Grimsborough with the chemical. Behind her back, Denise uses the Berzelium to create an invincible race of humans under her command, hoping to use them to establish a new world order. When Ad Astra's plans are foiled, Denise begins setting them up for execution and sets her plans into motion by obtaining the meteorite, hoping to use its core to destroy Grimsborough with a nuclear earthquake. She promises to spare her lawyer, Martin Davenport, from death if he enacts her plans, only to execute him after he fails. When confronted, Denise releases her neohumans, wreaking havoc across the city, before taunting and killing Rozetta. Unfortunately for Denise, her neohuman assistant Otto Kessel, whom she had sexually coerced into remaining loyal to her, sees her as part of the inferior humanity she intended to destroy, and executes her. An apathetic, ruthless and manipulative scientist hell-bent on destroying humanity for her own gain, Denise is easily one of the most despicable villains in the game.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#236737: Nov 18th 2020 at 7:46:18 AM

Oh yeah I trust MGD on it. Like I said it had just been awhile since I saw those episodes, so I was just curious.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#236738: Nov 18th 2020 at 7:49:15 AM

Also I got dangerous secrets. I'll read and tell you what I think later.

[up][up]Needs to be trimmed to be in line with the others in length.

Edited by miraculous on Nov 18th 2020 at 7:49:49 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#236739: Nov 18th 2020 at 8:44:52 AM

Actually, if we chop the last 2 sentences, it's shorter than Tesla's.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#236740: Nov 18th 2020 at 8:45:57 AM

Yeah, Denise's writeup could be shorter.

What Is the Work?

Headhunter is a game from 2001 for the Sega Dreamcast… if you’re in Europe. It was released as the console was about to be plugged from life support, so it was ported to PS2 in other countries. It also got a sequel, which I'll get to.

The game was also the one that got composer Richard Jacques on the map with his damn good orchestral score. And considering his previous work, it’s saying something.

What would you get if you made a movie inspired by both Metal Gear Solid and Resident Evil, and got Paul Verhoeven to direct? You’d get Headhunter, set in a futuristic LA where crime runs rampant. That’s where the headhunters come in, a group of authorized bounty hunter cops run by the ACN. Headhunters are tasked to nonlethally take down criminals, and if they don’t get bail money on time, their organs will be harvested and sold to the wealthy.

You play as Jack Wade, an amnesiac headhunter for ACN out to reclaim his memories and stop all sorts of crime in the city with the help of his partner Angela. But the evil Don Fulci stands in the way, doing what he can to ensure the Syndicate gets what they want.

I’ve got three candidates from these games, so let’s start with our first.

Who Is He?

Doctor Ernst Zweiberg is the Head of the Biotech Corporation, the mastermind of the first game, and the Greater-Scope Villain of the second game.

What has he done?

Zweiberg created the Criminal Control System (CCS) for ACN, which involves criminals being fired with guns that fries their brains, but preserves their organs, which are harvested and sold to the rich. Zweiberg also planted Alan Sharpe as head of ACN after having Christopher Stern killed, making him use more Biotech weapons to take out criminals. Zweiberg has Sharpe pose as mob boss Don Fulci, using his connections to allow the Syndicate to get away with their crimes like murder, kidnapping, and organ harvesting. Some of the organs taken are used for Zweiberg’s experiments, while others are sold on the black market.

But Zweiberg has bigger plans. Using the organs, plus a bunch of Headhunters like Jack Wade, Zweiberg creates the creature Adam, whom he views as the perfect specimen, the start for his master race. Zweiberg plans to spread a virus he created called the Bloody Mary virus around the world, where it will kill all of mankind, himself included. The virus is contained in X-Must, a soda created by Biotech, with the virus activating when the drinker watches an X-Must commercial. Zweiberg will populate the new world with Adam copies, and implant special mind control chip in their brains, giving them the knowledge they need to pass on to future generations to help them evolve.

Once Jack and Angela are in his grasp in Biotech headquarters, Zweiberg infects Jack with the virus. After Adam’s awakened by Angela, the creature attacks the doctor. But with his final breath, Zweiberg activates the self-destruction for the building. But Adam’s defeated, and Angela stops the commercials from airing, even though millions have already drunken the soda.

But she actually didn’t. The commercials still happen, and millions die, with Zweiberg laughing from beyond the grave as his plan has ultimately succeeded. The second game shows that his BM outbreak killed not only millions, but also caused anarchy and disorder amongst the general population.

Redeeming Qualities?

He named the Bloody Mary virus after his late wife, but that’s all we get from that relationship. He ultimately wants to create a perfect race because he’s a crazy dickhead, and his wife is never brought up again after that. Honestly, he loves Adam more than her, and even then, he only values him because he’s his idea of the perfect human being.

Heinousness?

Okay, this series actually has a somewhat high heinous standard. I’ll go over the ones in the second game when I get there, but for the first game? None of the other villains, save one, go beyond standard villainy.

And while the first game contains a lot of wacky satire, the villains are still taken seriously.

Conclusion

I think he’s a keep.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Nov 18th 2020 at 8:47:10 AM

It's Spooky Month!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#236743: Nov 18th 2020 at 8:55:27 AM

Abstain on Zweiberg; the part about his wife may need further examination.

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#236745: Nov 18th 2020 at 8:59:32 AM

[tup] to Denise Daniels and Doctor Ernst Zweiberg.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#236746: Nov 18th 2020 at 8:59:33 AM

A late yes to Denise and Zweiberg.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
caio202 The Brazillian Dog! from Brazil Since: Nov, 2019
The Brazillian Dog!
#236747: Nov 18th 2020 at 9:06:33 AM

[tup]to Denise, abstain on Ernest for a moment.

In this proposal I bring a villain of folklore, from an old Swedish legend.

Who is the candidate?

The candidate in question is the woman who, according to legend, terrified the devil himself. Her name: Sko-ella.

According to legend, the devil wanted to separate a couple, but all his attempts were in vain, since the love that connected this couple was very strong.

So one time, he decided to ask a woman for help to separate this couple, Sko-ella. In exchange, Sko-ella, who really wanted a red shoe. Knowing his desires, the devil promised her the best and redest shoe if she managed to separate the couple. Sko-ella accepted the bet and did her part.

Putting the plan into practice, cunning Sko-ella went to the woman, pretending to be a friend, and convinced her to cut strands from her husband's beard or chest so that she could cast a spell of eternal love and thus stay with him forever.  Naive, the woman believed her.

At the same time, Sko-ella also cheated on the woman's husband, without her knowing it. She told him that his wife would try to kill him while he slept, because, according to Sko-ella, his wife was obsessed with the idea that she was being betrayed by her husband, to the point of resolving to kill him out of jealousy, causing him to arm himself with a knife to defend himself.

With the idea that his wife tried to kill him, the man armed with a knife pretended to be asleep and vulnerable to his wife, who saw that it was the ideal opportunity to collect the beard hair he needed to do the spell. With the knife, she knelt next to her husband to collect his hair. Believing that his wife was about to kill him, the man stabbed his wife several times, killing her.

In this cruel and nefarious way, Sko-ella had managed to separate the couple definitively. As agreed, Sko-ella met with the devil to get his payment and tell him that he finally managed to separate that couple. Since that task had been difficult even for the devil, he was impressed to learn that a simple mortal had managed to accomplish what he did not even after so many attempts, at the same time, curious to know how she did it.

As he proudly told what she had done, the devil himself was horrified by Sko-ella,  in knowing that she made her husband kill his wife so that she could have a pair of shoes, which neither he, the devil, was able or would be able to do, proving that Sko-ella is worse than the devil. And according to legend, he was even terrified and afraid of her. Incredibly, the devil wanted anything but no the couple's death, showing that even he has more standards than Sko-ella.

Horrified at her, the devil didn't even want to go near the woman and used a long stick to hand her the pair of shoes. While he was unable to separate the devil at all, the cunning Sko-ella was more cruel than the devil and separated them with death and worse than she herself having killed one of them, she made her husband kill his own wife. Sko-ella got the pair of shoes ans the legend then spread by placing her as the woman who terrified the devil

Mitigating Factors

Unlike the devil himself, who despite all the evil he represents in culture, showed to have moral standarts that even he dares to cross, Sko-ella is a complete sociopath, without redeeming qualities and with no quarms to get what she want and all she did was simply because she wanted an futile object, out of sheer vanity. That is, absolutely no freudian excuse.

Henious Standart

The legend itself made clear that even the devil can be far less evil than Sko-ella and that even he has the redeeming quality of being horrified by what she did, while Sko-ella showed a true sociopath Being, capable of making a man kill her wife just for a pair of shoes. 

The devil, with all the evil representation he has in Judeo-Christian culture, could have done the same thing as Sko-ella or even worse, since, theoretically, he is the author of all evil.  However, curiously, the legend shows that even he has limits that he does not cross and that the human being undoubtedly manages to be more perverse sometimes, that is the case of Sko-ella, who is worse than the devil himself.

Any evil act would not be enough to horrify the devil at this point, and what Sko-ella caused is even more perverse because, because of a set up and lies, she made a husband kill his own wife, a husband  who probably loved her, just as she loved her, which made her be deceived by Sko-ella directly to her dead at the hands of the man she loves.

Veredict

I have no doubt that Sko-ella is a complete monster.

Edited by caio202 on Nov 18th 2020 at 2:11:28 PM

PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#236748: Nov 18th 2020 at 9:10:10 AM

Might fail the “substantial plot” rule, but I dunno.

caio202 The Brazillian Dog! from Brazil Since: Nov, 2019
The Brazillian Dog!
#236749: Nov 18th 2020 at 9:10:10 AM

I change my vote to YES to Ernest. What he loves (Adam) is not a being, but a prototype of his own eugenic wants and preferences.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#236750: Nov 18th 2020 at 9:17:41 AM

So, we have one (particularly cruel, but still) death for Sko-ella and and the mention that she terrified the Devil. Doesn't really seem like enough. The effort-post puts more focus on her terrifying the Devil as "proof" that she's a CM, which really feels more like an Informed Attribute. (I kinda doubt the Devil of all characters would be horrified by someone tricking a guy into killing their husband).

Edited by Clown-Face on Nov 18th 2020 at 9:18:02 AM

Why so serious?

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