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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#235851: Nov 11th 2020 at 10:34:12 AM

So, comic's not worth reading?

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#235852: Nov 11th 2020 at 10:38:04 AM

What are you talking about? He clearly just said it was a masterpiece that will echo for eternity!

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#235854: Nov 11th 2020 at 10:53:40 AM

That whole 3 Jokers shit sounded stupid as hell to begin with.

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#235856: Nov 11th 2020 at 11:51:27 AM

I liked the interactions with Joe Chill with Batman forgiving him but yeah. I don't see the point overall. Harley Quinn's joker getting redeemed by being a psycho but also having the capacity to feel love despite being evil was done better.

It's funny. Doomsday Clock, while not reaching the original Watchmen's heights, managed to be respectable (sorta like the NJO series. Large parts were eh, others were strong (Manhattan's interactions with Carver Coleman), and the finale was fantastic.)

Edited by LordYAM on Nov 11th 2020 at 11:53:04 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#235857: Nov 11th 2020 at 11:51:56 AM

[tup]Sheldon (forgot to vote earlier)

Willing to hear out Runeard when the time comes

If I wanted to read about a bunch of different Jokers, I’d read all 47 of the entries we have up already in one setting.

Edited by nwotyzal on Nov 11th 2020 at 11:52:42 AM

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#235858: Nov 11th 2020 at 12:46:44 PM

I actually really like the idea of playing with the Joker being heavily Depending on the Writer by having a story where there are literally multiple Jokers, but considering that both Big 2 comics companies have been stuck in bad writing ruts for a while, I always figured it would be better in my head than in reality.

Apparently so.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#235859: Nov 11th 2020 at 1:10:42 PM

I always felt it was a potentially interesting idea, but really should have been an elseworlds story rather mainstream.

Still it sounds like it didn't work.

LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#235860: Nov 11th 2020 at 1:20:51 PM

My idea for 3 jokers would be that Joker secretly trained a few apprentices, and unleashes them when he dies.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#235861: Nov 11th 2020 at 1:24:27 PM

Not the place we need to be suggesting how things could have been done better according to our opinion, Yam.

Edited by 43110 on Nov 11th 2020 at 4:24:35 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#235862: Nov 11th 2020 at 1:37:08 PM

Sorry I wasn't here most of the day but I was busy.

Anyways out of curiosity how many non-MCU Marvel Films keepers do we have?

Edited by Bullman on Nov 11th 2020 at 1:38:52 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#235863: Nov 11th 2020 at 1:41:43 PM

[up] those from the X-men series, Bullseye and Fisk from Daredevil, Lou Brackett from Captain America, Drake and Riot from Venom...

Edited by Silverblade2 on Nov 11th 2020 at 10:42:20 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#235864: Nov 11th 2020 at 1:55:58 PM

We also have one from the 1989 Punisher and two film version of Doctor Doom. I think. I'm not to sure on that.

Edited by Bullman on Nov 11th 2020 at 1:57:56 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#235865: Nov 11th 2020 at 2:00:45 PM

One of the Doom's only counts in the novelization I believe

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#235866: Nov 11th 2020 at 2:03:58 PM

Novelization one, but also The Fantastic Four & the 2015 one.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#235867: Nov 11th 2020 at 2:04:40 PM

Looking at the subpages. We also have one from Blade and three from the Ghost Rider films.

I was mainly just curious, but looking at the X-Men film series tree is pretty long. So I ak wondering if we should make an page for a for Marvel films with the MCU page as a subpage for it. Not saying we should, but I'm just wondering.

Edited by Bullman on Nov 11th 2020 at 4:41:56 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#235869: Nov 11th 2020 at 3:05:03 PM

[up][up]considering the MCU also has TV shows, should we maybe make one for tv and movies, maybe even make a big page for both?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#235870: Nov 11th 2020 at 3:07:48 PM

Do we need to. It's not like their grouped anywhere else on the site.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#235871: Nov 11th 2020 at 3:10:04 PM

Yeah, I mean, I know we did for video games and lit, but those were easier than tv/films.

deathnoteFNBOI58 Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
#235872: Nov 11th 2020 at 3:36:29 PM

I would like to add a Complete Monster candidate from the X-Files series. His name is John Barnett in the episode "Young at Heart"

WHO IS HE? John Barnett is a homicidal bank-robber who has a deep personal history with Fox Mulder, as Fox's inability to shoot Barnett from behind due to FBI regulations allowed Barnett to kill both his hostage and a fellow officer by shooting him in the face. The act haunts Mulder personally. Barnett is later revealed to be used in an experiment by Dr. Ridley by replacing Barnetts left hand with the hand of a lizard, but also allowing Barnett to age backwards, turning him from a middle aged man to a man of his twenties.

WHAT DOES HE DO? As stated, Barnett has a personal history with Mulder. However, the episode introduces Barnett shooting a cashier and stealing money while leaving behind something to aggravate Mulder. Later in the episode reveals that when Barnett was cornered, he resorts to holding his own driver as hostage before proceeding to shoot him and a police officer straight in the face. Later Barnett taunts Mulder with camera shots of Fox just to taunt and when Mulder later tries to convince one of his friends that Barnett is indeed still alive, Barnett breaks into said friend's house and kills him and leaves another note behind just to taunt Mulder. At the violin recital, Barnett, in a crowded room full of innocent people, takes a shot at Mulder's own partner, Scully before holding an innocent musician at gunpoint when Mulder tries to stop him. A homicidal sadist, Barnett is a murderer that Fox says "needs to die like an animal!"

MITIGATING FACTORS None, none of him or his actions are played for laughs

VERDICT? 👍

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#235873: Nov 11th 2020 at 3:40:48 PM

How many people did barnet threaten? I want to know how he compares to other serial killers like John Lee Roche and Donny Pfstar.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#235874: Nov 11th 2020 at 3:41:41 PM

I don't get the difference between Western animation and video games versus this. Plus I still think the X-Men tree is a little long and janky. Again I'm just curious.

Abstain on the X-Files guy as I am not super familiar with the show.

Edited by Bullman on Nov 11th 2020 at 5:45:53 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#235875: Nov 11th 2020 at 3:43:59 PM

Her Monster.The X Files for anyone whose curious. About heinous standard.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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