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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#234701: Oct 31st 2020 at 8:38:34 PM

[tup] Epstein

Alright. Time for my laundry list of write-ups.

  • Undead Pool (2007): The two brothers collectively known as “Doctor” are a pair of lascivious scientists who kidnap women to act as their sex slaves. Kidnapping Aki Kitashima to train her as an underwater assassin to be sold off, one of the brothers regularly rapes her while his brother rapes the woman Sayaka Motoshita. After Aki escapes and gains amnesia, the brothers send out Sayaka to track her down, and infects Aki’s school with a zombie virus disguised as a vaccine that turns everybody into the undead. One of the brothers sneaks into the school, skins the swim teacher’s face off to disguise himself, and slaughters the entire swim team to get to Aki. After his brother perishes, the remaining brother has Sayaka killed after she served her purpose and tries to rape Aki himself.
  • Onechanbara: Origins: Eva is the head of the Organization who seeks power through the Baneful Blood. Murdering Aya and Saki’s mother and earning the wrath of Oboro, Eva manipulates Saki into hating her family, using her as a way to slaughter Aya and Oboro to take their Baneful Blood. Sending her zombies out to wipe out a hospital and an entire city, Eva also has expendable clones created to kill Aya and Saki, attempting to have one named Lei killed for gaining emotions. After sending Oboro to kill his daughters, Eva promises Aya and Saki that she’ll eat their hearts before attempting to kill them both herself.
  • Sherlock Holmes and the Vengeance of Dracula: Count Vlad Dracula is an aristocratic vampire who seeks to rule England as his new vampire dynasty. Originally Vlad the Impaler of Romania who was previously slain by Abraham Van Helsing, Lord Arthur Holmwood, and John Seward for the murder of Lucy Westenra, Dracula survived and sought revenge. Traveling to London and killing those who stand in his way, Dracula kills Holmwood and Seward before forming an alliance with Professor Moriarty. Seeking the death of Sherlock Holmes, Dracula turns Moriarty’s henchmen into his own personal servants, while killing those who fail him, an act which disgusts even Moriarty. Turning Sherlock’s love Constance Blackwell and Watson against him, Dracula later devises a plan to inject his own blood into the city’s gaslight network to turn everybody in London into vampires, preparing to rule a country of his own kind with Constance by his side as queen.

N offered to have me write up the Headmaster's entry. So here it is.

  • Seven Mysteries:
    • Original Game: The Headmaster of the school, fearing that his academy will be shut down once word of a haunting spirit gets out, sets out to keep it all a secret to protect his reputation. Blackmailing Sang and his friend Linh to act as his “secret keepers” after they murdered Thuy and several other students, the Headmaster has them kill any first year transfer student who might be aware of the hauntings, having them dispose of the bodies in a secret room, of which there are dozens of corpses.
    • The Last Page: The unnamed Demon is a sadistic entity who placed a curse on the academy. Killing the students there for fun, the Demon poses the deaths as accidents and suicides. Possessing the body of the lonely Sang in order to devour his soul, the Demon blackmails the academy’s Headmaster to allow him to continue his murders, killing any transfer student who might know of the hauntings. Creating illusions to break Neal and Nathan’s minds, the Demon burns the school to get Neal’s attention, before forcing him to kill his friend Sang. Should Neal kill Sang, the Demon has the city’s inhabitants disappear, with only Nathan left to witness the city’s slow descent into literal darkness.

While I’m at it, I want to expand Himiko’s writeup a bit. I’ve been scouring the other games in the Onechanbara series after I found that people have translated the ones stuck in Japan. Himiko’s in another game in the series, Special, and I want to add a sentence describing her actions in it.

  • Himiko, debuting in Bikini Samurai Squad, is a centuries-old scientist and the head of the Organization, a company that kidnaps people with Baneful Blood to perform experiments on. Kidnapping various men—including Anna's brother—she injects them with the Blood to make them her obedient, indestructible aides. Desiring to gain eternal youth by drinking Saki's Blood, she unleashes an army of zombies upon Tokyo, sending out Misery and her indestructible aides to collect whatever Blood remains. After drinking the Blood, she plans to rule the world and wipe out the entire Baneful Blood bloodline until she's the only survivor. Returning in Special, Himiko wipes Aya and friends’ memories and places them inside a maze, preparing to kill them all and acquire more power for herself after they’ve completed it.

It's Spooky Month!
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#234702: Oct 31st 2020 at 8:52:03 PM

[up] For the Headmaster, can I add this last sentence: “Depending on the ending, the Headmaster can have Sang kill protagonist Tuan or frame Tuan for the murders, getting him Wrongfully Committed to an asylum.”

Oh, and late [tup] to the demon.

Edited by MasterN on Oct 31st 2020 at 8:52:32 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#234703: Oct 31st 2020 at 9:41:27 PM

[tup] Dracula

[tup]The Scientists

[tup] Hiram.

Watch me destroying my country
Kappaclystica Since: Jan, 2019
#234704: Oct 31st 2020 at 9:43:24 PM

I was replaying Darkest Dungeon recently, and I wondered if the expansions that came out since it was first effortposted contained any CM's.

Short answer, no. The Countess is plenty nasty, but the heinousness standard for the game is massively jacked up by the Ancestor, who since he was last effortposted has been shown to destroy an innocent Miller's farm with an eldritch meteor and in the process subjected him to a Fate Worse than Death, but doesn't qualify due to expressing regrets for his actions. (He is revealed to have been possessed by the Heart of Darkness after his death, but it's not clear enough that this invalidates his regrets.) Despite The Countess being a powerful vampire, she does far less than the Ancestor, a mere mortal. None of the new eldritch beings in the Color of Madness DLC qualify, either; there is one entity that is mentioned could destroy the world if it woke up, but it's an Obliviously Evil infant-like being and so can't be a CM.

Also, I'm not sure if it was brought up in his last discussion, but the Ancestor seems to have an unambiguous redeeming quality; he found the Hag's cannibalism too disgusting and kicked her out of the Hamlet. He also has since found his courtier's friends too disgusting, as well as the Fanatic, another miniboss.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#234705: Oct 31st 2020 at 9:46:31 PM

Based on the movie and what I’ve read, [tup] to the Van Helsing Dracula.

If anyone’s interested, I’ll bring up two Halloween candidates I considered except decided neither was heinous enough and a couple other tropers agreed with me.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#234707: Nov 1st 2020 at 1:11:59 AM

Okay, I'm asking you nicely, besides Jackie's and Lighty's, and my own if he gets approved, and Chase Hamilton, let's please have no more entries this week.

Yes to Mir's Drac; the scientists; and Hiram.

Edited by ACW on Nov 1st 2020 at 5:02:00 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#234708: Nov 1st 2020 at 3:03:13 AM

[tup] Headmaster, Demon, all the Draculas, Eva, Doctors and Hiram

[tdown] Breezy, Sang and Mickey

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#234709: Nov 1st 2020 at 3:33:49 AM

I want to propose the image of Lord Sinclair from The Mystery of the Druids cutting apart a helpless man during the ritual.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Nov 1st 2020 at 2:34:11 PM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#234710: Nov 1st 2020 at 6:10:07 AM

[up]my main issue is who’s who in that picture?, but maybe it could work.

Edited by nwotyzal on Nov 1st 2020 at 6:10:44 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#234711: Nov 1st 2020 at 8:09:52 AM

ACW's asking nicely, just throwing up that I'm here to not be nice if his request isn't respected. We're not breaking his back over time he volunteers to a hobby site.

DrScavenge27 Since: Jul, 2020
#234712: Nov 1st 2020 at 8:10:51 AM

How many CM incarnations of Joseph Stalin we already have?

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#234713: Nov 1st 2020 at 8:13:05 AM

[up] Two, I believe. Though the number might be higher if you count expies.

DrScavenge27 Since: Jul, 2020
#234714: Nov 1st 2020 at 8:18:45 AM

And with expies? I think, at least 4.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#234716: Nov 1st 2020 at 8:27:21 AM

And yet again, I find it amusing that a mystic whose main crimes were being sleazy and having unorthodox ideas about religion has more CM versions than a totalitarian, warmongering, genocidal dictator.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#234717: Nov 1st 2020 at 8:44:16 AM

Rasputin vs. Stalin is cool and all but I think the most pertinent question for the thread is which hair colour is the best for CM? Also once we've covered that I think we should discuss candidates and their favourite cereals.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#234718: Nov 1st 2020 at 8:47:08 AM

Pfft white obviously. [lol]

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#234719: Nov 1st 2020 at 8:51:31 AM

@ACW I don’t have EP s for them. They probably don’t count so I’m not even bothering. By bring up, I mean I wanted to just briefly describe them.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#234720: Nov 1st 2020 at 8:52:20 AM

Nah I checked with acw. Eps are fine. He just doesn't want people to write up new entries.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#234721: Nov 1st 2020 at 8:53:39 AM

Bro his end goal is to lose the weight on the bulk of entries he's being given, posting an argument to entertain including a candidate would still go against that, even if it's not in EP-format it'll still defeat the purpose.

Edit: With mir's point I guess it's fine, don't burn yourself out Adam, even updating pending and whatnot can get to be a pain when you've got enough on your plate.

Edited by 43110 on Nov 1st 2020 at 11:54:26 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#234722: Nov 1st 2020 at 9:00:29 AM

[up] As for favorite cereal, obviously Count Chocula.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#234723: Nov 1st 2020 at 9:22:56 AM

Anyway, I have a bit of a dilemma. I'm looking at a fanfic version of Lord Voldemort who might qualify, but the problem is most of his... meatier crimes are done by the Diary Horcrux. Should they be counted as his misdeeds?

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#234724: Nov 1st 2020 at 9:27:14 AM

How much control did he had on the Diary? If it was some gambit by allowing the Diary run rampant, then yeah.

Watch me destroying my country
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#234725: Nov 1st 2020 at 9:27:49 AM

Well is he like an Orcus on His Throne ordering them? Does this version present the Diary as an extension of his will/servant or is it its own thing?


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