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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#234301: Oct 29th 2020 at 6:32:53 PM

You mean like Softcore porn ? I'm not sure about movies, but I'm pretty sure there was one or two literature pieces that got away with it.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#234303: Oct 29th 2020 at 6:47:12 PM

[tup] to Grandpa, Bloch, and Chase

I think Erotic thrillers can have keepers. I mean American Horror Story is credited as an erotic thriller yet it’s still loaded with lots of complete monsters

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#234304: Oct 29th 2020 at 6:53:29 PM

[tup] AV duo. Abstain on Gramps.

It's Spooky Month!
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#234305: Oct 29th 2020 at 7:05:14 PM

[tup] Bloch and Chase.

We also have Kouzuki from The Handmaiden, I personally don't have a problem with it.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#234306: Oct 29th 2020 at 7:29:30 PM

I should think if it's not violating the P5 and it's not just literal porn, you'd be fine there.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#234307: Oct 29th 2020 at 7:31:10 PM

[tup] to Blosch and Chase

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#234308: Oct 29th 2020 at 7:54:44 PM

[tup]Jiu and the American Vampire villains

@username As long as it ain't a porno, you should be fine.

Edited by nwotyzal on Oct 29th 2020 at 7:55:39 AM

Kappaclystica Since: Jan, 2019
#234309: Oct 29th 2020 at 7:57:55 PM

I think even then we've said that even examples from 5P violating works can stay if they're valid, but I'm pretty sure that's intended to be used grandfather in 5P violating examples, not to add new ones.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#234310: Oct 29th 2020 at 7:58:29 PM

@username: Porn with PlotPorn Without Plot. If it's the former, you're fine. Even stuff like Strike Back and Game of Thrones have sex scenes that, if omitted, wouldn't change anything besides trimming a few minutes.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
NattesNovgrel from The Middle of Misery, South of Iowa Since: Apr, 2020
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#234313: Oct 29th 2020 at 9:07:57 PM

Honestly, I think Lighty opened the floodgates on this sort of thing when he did two effort posts from the Rance series, the entries under AliceSoft, which I should remind is a series of often hardcore hentai games where the protagonist is often a rapist. The series was even cut by P5 for its abundance of sexual content, so I think you're safe with just about anything.

Edited by LoreDeluxe on Oct 29th 2020 at 9:08:54 AM

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#234314: Oct 29th 2020 at 9:10:42 PM

[tup] Charlotte, Arktos, Weishu, Jia, Bloch and Chase

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#234315: Oct 29th 2020 at 9:20:36 PM

[tup] to the Boggy Bay Tooth Fairy/Charlotte Gibbons, Arktos, the Dr. Nefarious Tropy quote, Emperor Weishu Maorin Guangong Zhian, Jia Jui, Bernard "BD" Bloch, Chase Hamilton

Cut Lady Zenadia, Alzena, and Nurhar.

As for the unnamed Grandfather, I think I'll go with a slight [tdown] because, reading it over, I don't think there's enough of a substantial plot. When it comes to describing Miranda's life at home, it's not very descriptive. It doesn't specify how Miranda had to take care of her cousins (who are all completely uncharacterized, lacking even names in this story) beyond a brief statement of how she had to teach the Grandfather's ideology. Essentially, it spends more time describing said ideology than actually showing how Miranda teaches it, an example of how unsubstantial this part is beyond plainly saying "the Grandfather is a monster."

As for forming a relationship with Clara, I don't think we get enough build-up on this front to make the plot substantial. Their positive direct interactions are Miranda trying to help Clara escape and a pretty vague statement at the end that Miranda "takes care of her." There's no unique set-up, obstacles, or major developments to their relationship. If anything, the story gives more specific detail behind the Grandfather's crimes than the budding relationship between the two, which indicates how little plot this story has.

This story also pretty much has no climax. Miranda and Clara find the mutilations that the Grandfather is behind and the story immediately cuts to Miranda explaining how the Grandfather was arrested. It's just a Plot Twist without much substantial development afterwards, besides a brief and vague epilogue. This is yet another indication of how little plot is behind this story.

Given all of the missing elements behind this story, I'm afraid I'm going to have to [tdown] this. If at least one of these bases were substantially covered, I'd be more comfortable with accepting this, but as it stands, I can't bring myself to do it.

Edited by DrUnknown on Oct 29th 2020 at 10:03:27 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#234316: Oct 29th 2020 at 9:25:55 PM

Makes sense. Probably will abstain.

Edited by AustinDR on Oct 29th 2020 at 9:45:46 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#234318: Oct 29th 2020 at 9:54:04 PM

Hmm.. hearing Unknown on it I'm inclined to say no unless there's a counter to that?

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#234320: Oct 29th 2020 at 10:04:55 PM

I'm probably going to wait for Beast's response.

caio202 The Brazillian Dog! from Brazil Since: Nov, 2019
The Brazillian Dog!
#234321: Oct 29th 2020 at 10:15:05 PM

[tdown]for Grandpa and [tup]for Jia Jui and Tooth fairy.

WoodsyGrabass2019 Since: Jun, 2019 Relationship Status: In love with love
#234322: Oct 29th 2020 at 10:29:03 PM

I think the entry for William Afton should be edited. It says he murdered "eleven" children, but I think it should say "at least six". The "Happiest Day" minigame in 3 only shows six ghosts, and likewise Pizzeria Simulator ends the story with only six gravestones.

[tup] to Jia Jui, Bloch, and Chase. Abstain on Grandpa.

Edited by WoodsyGrabass2019 on Oct 29th 2020 at 1:34:55 PM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#234323: Oct 29th 2020 at 10:30:33 PM

Is it a necessary change?

WoodsyGrabass2019 Since: Jun, 2019 Relationship Status: In love with love
#234324: Oct 29th 2020 at 10:36:24 PM

[up] I think so. As I said, the "Happiest Day" minigame in 3 only shows six ghosts (the original 4, Golden Freddy and the Puppet, but none of the toys), and likewise Pizzeria Simulator ends the story with only six gravestones.

Edited by WoodsyGrabass2019 on Oct 29th 2020 at 1:41:03 PM

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#234325: Oct 29th 2020 at 10:40:37 PM

I'll admit that the 11 kids number always seemed odd to me as well since the most definitive number we get from the games as far as I remember is 6 (the original 5 plus the Puppet). I do think it should be changed to be factually accurate.

Edited by papyru30 on Oct 29th 2020 at 11:40:52 AM


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