During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I posted about it like an hour ago and then silently waited to see if anyone would acknowledge it.
But yes, please go.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallBtw for rising of the shield hero. Medea is exclusive to the web novel from what I've heard. The other media adapts her out. The other two though are in all other media sources so do we want to specify the entry is for the original web novel.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Looking at the newly edited Supernatural page, and I noticed that Alastair isn't categorized in a season even though he only appeared in season 4. Is there a reason for this?
Two weeks have passed since the Metal Virus saga of Sonic the Hedgehog (IDW) came to an end, so time to kick off discussion.
Like the previous saga, nobody counts. The only ones who are debatably heinous enough to qualify are Eggman and Zavok. They're both willing to infect and spread the entire planet with the Metal Virus, Eggman knowing that the infected will slowly decay and die, and when Zavok hijacks the plot, he simply intends to have the Zombots tear the planet asunder out of spite towards Sonic and Eggman, along with trying to murder Cream with his bare hands when defeated. But, disregarding how I'm not sure if their crimes are given the proper magnitude, both of them have redeeming qualities.
Eggman genuinely cares for Metal Sonic, and it's heavily implied that he secretly misses his time as the benevolent "Mr Tinker". Zavok has a legit Villainous Friendship with Master Zikk, like he does in Sonic Lost World. (Thogh Zavok doesn't seem to care for the other members of the Deadly Six as he did nearly attack Zeena for questioning him.) So yeah, currently nobody counts, though whether or not Zavok's redeeming quality will be subverted later on is up to future issues.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Oct 7th 2020 at 12:16:03 PM
Here's my write-up:
- Even the Worm
(Marathon and I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream): AM is a maniacal supercomputer who hated his human masters and chose to exterminate humanity by unleashing its nuclear arsenal and starting a nuclear exchange with the supercomputers in China and Russia. After his plan succeeded, AM captured the five humans to torment for eternity, before capturing the crew of the Rozinante when they crash onto Earth. AM "rapes" them by hacking their neural implants to extract information from them before subjecting them to various simulations showcasing the deaths of their friends and mocking them over their past. When Durandal arrives to rescue the crew, AM announces his plan to kill him and then hijack his ships, traveling across the universe to exterminate every living being he comes across.
Also, may someone please clarify if Iced Earth's Malebolgia is distinct enough from his original counterpart. I feel like it may be a major issue from this qualifier and needs to be addressed.
Noted. Thanks for the clarification.
Edited by DrUnknown on Oct 7th 2020 at 10:58:12 AM
I don't think we did. Speaking of Keeper Malleus, there is an unapproved entry for him on that page:
"Complete Monster: Despite how usually horrible Dark Gods and Keepers in general are, none are described as evil as Keeper Malleus was. Having destroyed his home country and turned it into a desert, forcing the inhabitants to eat each other, enchanting the king to kill his family, taking women as sex slaves and sacrificing the children he got from them, all while laughing and enjoying the atrocities he commited. No wonder why Mercury killed him in cold blood without a doubt after learning all of this."
It has been deleted and the user has been notified about bringing potential candidates here. Thank you for bringing this up, DrScavenge27.
Edited by DrUnknown on Oct 7th 2020 at 11:14:14 AM
It was approved, but the entry needs expansion before getting added.
EDIT: I cleaned these entries up a bit, but I'm actually feeling they should be cut unless someone can expand them. Especially Nigel's.
- Big Finish Doctor Who:
- "Jubilee": Nigel Rochester, President of the English Empire, is one of the more disturbing villains in the Big Finish series, being a Dalek worshipping human in charge of a nightmarishly genocidal and xenophobic empire which attempts to emulate the Daleks in all the worst ways. He remains cheerfully upbeat and affable even when mutilating midgets to fit in his "toy Daleks" or beating his wife for speaking in contractions.
- "Nekromanteia": Wendle Marr begins by sending a fleet of ships and their crew to their deaths, then orders the flagship's commander to die as per his company's protocol. When the guy refuses, he has his assistant prepare to destroy the guy's livelihood and the lives of his family. He later receives funds to help improve the horrid quality of life for the workers on his pet project, but decides to instead pocket the money for himself and kill all the workers once it is finished. He is so evil that even the ship commander—who tries to rape companion Erimem—is more likable than him, with his assistant killing him and making the ship commander CEO of the company instead after his greed nearly causes the destruction of the whole universe.
Edited by ACW on Oct 8th 2020 at 6:43:05 AM
And hell, while we think about what to do with the Big Finish candidates, here's today's Music bunch:
- Macabre: Keep both; they were the only ones that weren't consensus cuts.
- Machine Head's Charles Manson: Cut.
- Madame Macabre: I think all can stay, especially Monika.
- Malevolent Creation's "Jack the Ripper": Keep, I guess?
- Man On The Internet: Lavos and Marx can definitely stay, Dimention and Samus I'm fine keeping.
- Maximum the Hormone's Frieza: Too similar to canon?
- Metallica: Cut.
- The Misfits: Keep the Narrator; I think Jack can stay too.
- Mrs. Dyer, The Old Baby Farmer
: Huh, I was not aware she was a real person. I'll toss in a cut vote.
- Necro: Keep.
- N.W.A: Keep.
- Randy Newman: Keep.
So:
- Cut Manson, Metallica, Dyer.
- Unsure on Maximum's Frieza.
- Someone check on Madame Macabre's and Man On the Internet's, but I think we're mostly good.
- I guess Jack (both) can stay?
- Macabre, Misfits narrator; Necro; NWA; Newman are all solid keeps.
I think the M. Macabre candidates have enough character and their crimes are different that canon. I think we can cut Dimentio cause his crimes I think are too similar to canon. Manson, Phantom Lord, and Dyer are cuts. Unsure about the Jacks. Everyone else can stay
you’re right, I’m stupid
Edited by nwotyzal on Oct 8th 2020 at 7:41:58 AM
Quotes problem: the quote for Alex Declan from Person of Interest is still linked to the wrong episode; it's Season 2, Episode 17, not Episode 19.
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and killsWent and deleted the Mr. Blonde quote from Reservoir Dogs from the Sandbox since he no longer counts.
Also for the images a couple appear to be dead links, namely the Pennywise image from It: Chapter Two and the Judge Doom collage from Who Framed Roger Rabbit.
Edited by k410ren on Oct 8th 2020 at 9:32:02 AM
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and killsI’ve got a post relating to this video https://youtu.be/2gi-27STuew
What is the work?: Batmanmarch’s Batman Action Figure Adventures, an adaptation of the Batman comics (and to a lesser extent, the animated series). Specifically, the final episode, entitled “The Days Beyond”.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?: Rose Cunningham is a psychotic high school student with an entitlement complex. After being rejected by every boy at Hamilton High, she proceeds to assault and kidnap several of them, chopping them to pieces and using their organs and limbs to create her “perfect boyfriend”. Upon unmasking Batman as Terry Mc Ginnis, she rejects his offer of professional help as “taking her to prison”, before deciding to add him to her project, and when he escapes, she decides to kill him, declaring “that if you won’t be my boyfriend, then I’ll make sure you’re not good enough for anyone.”
Are they heinous by the standards of the story: They are the Big Bad of the finale in a series consisting entirely of standalone stories. The only other antagonists within the episode are minor muggers.
Are there any mitigating factors/Freudian excuses?: She feels abandoned by her parents, but it’s clear they don’t want her to feel abandoned (and it’s likely they wouldn’t condone her actions). And the various boys who rejected her are at worst Innocently Insensitive. As Batman himself puts it “You killed all these people because they wouldn’t take you to the summer dance?”
What is the verdict?: I think that the candidate more than qualifies, based on what I have provided (Again, I can’t provide much else, due to her only appearing in a one part story).
She sounds pretty bad, but I think the comic series might share a heinous standard with Batman Beyond so we'd need to discuss that
HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIAI'll give a slight
to Rose Cunnginham, as her organ harvesting of high school students does sound unique enough for her low-level resources.
@MasterN and ACW: Really? Looking over the locked pages, there is not a single entry dedicated to Keeper Malleus under the Fan Works page. Also, there are actually multiple keepers with the name Malleus (one even with the same name "Keeper Malleus"), just not Malleus from Dungeon Keeper Ami. I think that maybe the source of the confusion.
EDIT: As for the music candidates I didn't vote on for this batch,
to Dimentio (too similar to his original counterpart). As for Dark Samus, I think she's fine because she never tried to assimilate the universe in canon.
Edited by DrUnknown on Oct 8th 2020 at 7:28:37 AM

To change the subject, there's an active Image Picking thread
for Monster.Fallout. Anyone want to participate?