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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#231101: Oct 1st 2020 at 5:05:36 PM

Phantom Lord is just standard slashy bad guy, cut as you please.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#231103: Oct 1st 2020 at 5:34:06 PM

Okay. So at least twelve of us (myself included) are in favour of deposing the Phantom Lord. ~ACW, please remove his entry from the Metallica YMMV at your earliest convenience.

Long live the revolution!

Edited by SkyCat32 on Oct 1st 2020 at 8:44:37 AM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#231104: Oct 1st 2020 at 5:47:04 PM

Yeah cut Phantom Lord. Was always a little iffy on him, even if the song was good.

It's Spooky Month!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#231105: Oct 1st 2020 at 7:16:55 PM

Next Acclaim dude: from their take on Magnus, Robot Fighter, we have the Good Shepherd.

Who is the Good Shepherd? What has he done?

Original name H8, shepherd to human "breedstock" in the dystopian robot empire of 4000 AD and father-mentor figure to Magnus, was among the first robots to gain free will and thus turn against humanity. Flashbacks show the Good Shepherd earned his title as "massacre-veteran" well, slaughtering untold numbers of humans with his own hands before robots fully took over the world.

The Good Shepherd has something of a strange complex, though—he wants to be human. And to this end, the Good Shepherd builds a deranged faith around one major tenant: to be the creator, eat the creator. The Good Shepherd has humans gathered up in droves and butchered so he and his followers can eat them (don't question how they digest it!) even tricking the human slaves he's raising into becoming cannibals by feeding them the meat. Even children are taken to be butchered as we see in one instance some robots cornering a child in an alley gleefully musing how the taste of baby fat will sweeten up the taste.

Said human slaves are another personal project of the Good Shepherd's; the Good Shepherd has raised Magnus from infanthood under horrific abuse. One horrific flashback has the Good Shepherd putting baby Magnus through tortuous experiments without painkiller, infusing his blood with "liquitech" and performing horrible surgeries on the infant in order to make him near-invincible. Paradoxically the Good Shepherd teaches Magnus implicitly to hate robots and eventually lead an uprising...all so the Good Shepherd can put it down himself. Why? Spirit helps the flavor of people, it seems.

Magnus ends up traveling back in time 2,000 with the Good Shepherd reduced to a head for a while. The Good Shepherd ends up briefly traveling back to the future long enough to get a new body, manipulating a young woman into letting him do so before returning to the present and trying to murder her in front of Magnus. The Good Shepherd decides he's going to kickstart the robot uprising 2,000 years earlier just to spite Magnus.

The Good Shepherd comes to Albania where he showers the citizenry in technology and upgrades Albania swiftly to technology 2,000 years ahead of their time, making the President his puppet leader. Posing as a benevolent leader while plotting to eventually let all his new machines go haywire upon Albania, the Good Shepherd is given his opportunity when a terrorist group hijacks his machines to attack the Vatican.

The Good Shepherd is only too happy to play along with the supposed attack and prepares his nation for worldwide war, arming all the robots and telling them to prepare slaughtering humanity by gigantic numbers across the globe: "some of you may hesitate to kill a human at first, but once you start, you won't know when to stop." We even see in an alternate timeline the Good Shepherd exterminates all human life after one rebellion too many, the last survivor having been kept crucified for ten years before he managed to escape to the present. Ultimately Magnus, with said time-traveling survivor's help, takes out the Good Shepherd with nothing less than a pocket nuke detonated from within him.

Any mitigating factors?

No. The robots have full agency in this series and the Good Shepherd works on a philosophy that differentiates himself even from the other murderous robots, particularly by virtue of his whole "eat the creator" thing. The Good Shepherd plays a lot at Pragmatic Villainy for the sake of his facade when manipulating Albania, but it's all that—manipulation. The Good Shepherd's internal monologue and subsequent events reveal he's only too happy to slaughter all of humanity should he not be able to control them.

Conclusion?

Keeper.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#231107: Oct 1st 2020 at 7:19:53 PM

[tup] to the Good Shepherd

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#231108: Oct 1st 2020 at 7:24:53 PM

[tup] to the Shepherd.

And if I end up not coming back to this thread, I just want to say one thing: I'm sorry. I have to admit I wasn't completely rational when 43 made his suggestion. Since it happened right when I was working through a bunch of real-life music candidates, I felt attacked. I'm sure that wasn't his intention, but it just felt like a slap in the face.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming 43. What I did was all me. I shouldn't have taken it as personally as I did. Maybe if I'd handled it better, this whole shitstorm wouldn't have happened. Because let's be real: it's largely my fault things spiraled the way they did. Maybe this is the logical conclusion to my operating differently from most of this thread, and my inability to communicate properly.

God, I feel like such a dumbass.

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Oct 1st 2020 at 7:26:41 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#231109: Oct 1st 2020 at 7:25:08 PM

[tup]Good Shepard

Hey about today, should we make a separate thread to discuss the music villains, sort of like what we do for image picking?

[up]I’m sorry if this was a hectic day for you. It really did seem so sudden and it was kinda confusing. You didn’t do anything wrong.

Edited by nwotyzal on Oct 1st 2020 at 7:28:59 AM

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#231110: Oct 1st 2020 at 7:26:00 PM

[up] Not sure that's necessary, but we'll see.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#231111: Oct 1st 2020 at 7:26:25 PM

@Imp: No hard feelings. After all, your mental health is more important than the thread.

[tup] Good Shepherd.

Edited by AustinDR on Oct 1st 2020 at 7:27:17 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#231114: Oct 1st 2020 at 7:53:18 PM

[tup] H8 (subtle), aka the Good Shepard

It's Spooky Month!
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#231115: Oct 1st 2020 at 7:58:39 PM

Hey about today, should we make a separate thread to discuss the music villains, sort of like what we do for image picking?

On this subject: there's a discussion thread in Trope Talk that was used to hash out the similar thread-derailing problems about fanfics a few months ago, at least as far as I remember. I'd be on board with using it to address this whole question about music villains.

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#231116: Oct 1st 2020 at 8:07:09 PM

[tup] to H8/The Good Shepherd.

@ImperialMajestyXO: Apology accepted. And I reiterate, if you ever feel the need to take a step away from this thread for the sake of your mental health, feel free to do so. If not, you're still welcome to participate in this thread.

@nwotyzal: In my opinion, I don't believe that will be necessary. A consensus has already been reached regarding music candidates and any new song candidates would already be brought up here, so it would be redundant to have a second thread dedicated to those candidates.

Edited by DrUnknown on Oct 1st 2020 at 8:07:33 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#231117: Oct 1st 2020 at 8:08:11 PM

Yeah, pretty much the issue is resolved for now. Don't think a separate thread would be necessary.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#231118: Oct 1st 2020 at 8:09:54 PM

@nwo And if you do have other ideas, this thread's as good a place as any to voice them.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#231119: Oct 1st 2020 at 8:21:09 PM

[tup] Mystery Girl, Endra and Shepherd

[tdown] Patrycja, Bundy and Phantom Lord

I don't really agree that a lot of these songs are lacking in narrative, given the medium, but the consensus was already reached, so oh well.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#231121: Oct 1st 2020 at 8:30:12 PM

Yes to Shepherd.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#231122: Oct 1st 2020 at 8:37:05 PM

Oh, forgot to add: I'm not gonna bother voting on things that aren't specific cut proposals, but will adjust things on the creator and troper sandboxes.

Critica7 Self-Declared King of Everything from Smallville Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Self-Declared King of Everything
#231123: Oct 1st 2020 at 9:38:15 PM

[tup] to H8. Cut the Phantom Lord.

Check out my current fanfiction project.
RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#231124: Oct 1st 2020 at 9:56:48 PM

[tup] to the Shepherd… wait, someone's leaving? WTF???


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