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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from The Daily Bugle (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Libraryseraph Showtime! from Canada (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
Showtime!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#230804: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:09:55 PM

Sidenote...some may remember I did an EP on the canceled comic, The Dracula File from the British anthology comic Scream.

30 years later? It got a conclusion

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#230805: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:12:41 PM

[up] AFTER 30 YEARS?! What took them so long?!

Edited by Michealthehero21 on Sep 30th 2020 at 7:13:00 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#230806: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:15:15 PM

the original magazine was canceled. It was only collected to a trade....relatively recently despite its popularity, and in a special haloween season horror anthology, a finish was published.

Kappaclystica 『  』 from The 'hood (of a pasty upper-middle class suburb) Since: Jan, 2019
CerotechOmega Since: Oct, 2010
#230808: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:49:57 PM

I know the Forgotten Truths event was just released today, but Dragalia Lost has a real whopper for this trope: the military commander Augus.

He's been stated to have ravaged nature as part of his genocidal campaign against the dragons, and at one point he arms mana bombs in human settlements with explicit intent of killing the dragons that will rampage their way, and does not inform the inhabitants of the bombs so the dragons won't suspect something is wrong before the trap is sprung, which implies casualties in the millions. His actual motive is absolute human dominance over this world and many others, which is also why he uses a temporally displaced Zethia as a hostage to force Ilia to open an otherworld gate, through which many fiends pour forth, along with the consciousness that gives rise to Mordecai and, ultimately, Morsayati. This, ultimately, means that every horrible thing that happens in the main Dragalia Lost story can ultimately be attributed to this psychopath. While the Holywyrm Elysium is a piece of work with his Control Freak tendencies, when you consider he's hardlining because of damage the humans under Augus' command is wreaking upon nature, he comes off as A Lighter Shade of Black at worst.

More info will emerge over the next eleven days, but this is what is known off day one. I'm placing this here so he may be added when the timer or event runs out, but if someone provides evidence to the contrary later on, I won't contest it.

Edited by CerotechOmega on Sep 30th 2020 at 7:50:25 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#230809: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:54:10 PM

Yes to Scragg's Shadowman guys and we actually wait two weeks until after something has been released to even mention it on this thread, so as to not spoil people who haven't gotten to see/play/read the work yet.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#230810: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:57:07 PM

[tup] RED Soldier, Greg, Alexander, Greeshawn, Bones, Garnes, Legion and Philip

[tdown] Akan

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#230811: Sep 30th 2020 at 8:17:14 PM

[tup] Legion

[tup] Philip II

[tup]Tommy Lee Bones

[tup]Garnes Back

Watch me destroying my country
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#230812: Sep 30th 2020 at 8:23:44 PM

Another Complete Monster pothole I found, this time on the WMG page for My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. I think you guess the problem just by reading this:

A Complete Monster will be introduced as a future villain.
Because of this, he/she will be the only villain that is played completely seriously and his/her actions would be so vile that King Sombra and Lord Tirek would cringe in fear.
  • Confirmed, by and large, with Grogar.

Hey, remember when Grogar was voted up?

... Yeah, I changed this from Confirmed to Jossed.

laar2002 Since: Mar, 2020
#230813: Sep 30th 2020 at 8:24:03 PM

Here's a new request, and an even better one to booth:

What is the Work?

It's Criminal Case, which is a 2012 game that's all about solving murders, and this time, it's the "Supernatural Investigations" arc that this manifesto will cover. The culprit in particular of being a Complete Monster is a victim, whose name is Lucrezia Stein, the sadistic owner of a Bedlam House called Blackmoor Asylum.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

Gleefully leaping over the Moral Event Horizon several times, Lucrezia Stein subjects her inmates to all sorts of atrocious experiments, all of which make her Karmic Death EXTREMELY cathartic and satisfying, especially for the suspects, Gwen and the player:

- What Lucrezia does to Adam (who would eventually be revealed to Lucrezia's killer) is so horrific that this act alone is what makes her cross the aforementioned Moral Event Horizon on one occasion: she bullied and harassed him by putting four tablespoons of salt into his bowl of gruel and forced him to eat it all, just because she saw him play Link 4 with Savannah, Lucrezia's daughter. Also, she locked him in a tiny cupboard even knowing full well he's claustrophobic, all because he had taken too many bathroom breaks, and most egregiously, threatening Adam to put him a mask and return him to being a patient if he doesn't "behave". All this abuse is just so overwhelming, that it subtly foreshadows Adam as being Lucrezia's killer.

- Then there's what Lucrezia does to Charity and Mercy, and is basically the exact same stuff that Shou Tucker from Fullmetal Alchemist does to his own wife and daughter: just to put it clear, when Charity and Mercy were normal girls, they were happy until Dr. Stein stole them both from their mother, then she cut the girls up and stitched them back together as one, with the twins even stating that they now share one stomach. But the triggering factor was when Lucrezia told Charity and Mercy that they were her greatest experiment, which is understandably gets them angry. This is all more than enough why the two conjoined twins wanted her dead, and are relieved now that she died.

- As with poor Greg (who isn't a patient, but rather is inspecting the asylum alongside Gwen and the player), who was already Ax-Crazy to begin with, Lucrezia had stolen his Link 4 game for three whole days, and for that as well as all of her unspeakable atrocities, it was enough as to why in a footage in "Chapter 3" he wanted to kill this monstrous psychopath with a scalpel.

- As for the murdered "missing patients" of the asylum, Willie Hicks (the asylum's groundkeeper) reveals that Lucrezia was killing those poor patients and burying them into the back graveyard, which he unveils by stating that he discovered this revelation by the fact that when he was digging up some flowerbeds, he unearthed chopped-off limbs and skulls belonging to the murdered and mutilated patients, and when Willie tried to warn Dr. Stein about this horrible truth, she just ignored him, and Willie finishes by stating that he meant to warn her and that she had to be stopped, which becomes even more disturbing since those remains would end up becoming the main components for Lucrezia to bring Adam Enstrom to life.

- As for Lucrezia's own daughter Savannah, the poor girl (now free of her Mushroom Samba) reveals that Dr. Stein was tremendously abusive towards her, locking her on the tiny closet under the stairs when she was a child, triggering her because she suffers from extreme claustrophobia, and locked her into the asylum only because she disliked her boyfriend and kept her high on drugs so she wouldn't escape, and it's all made clear that Savannah is now relieved since Lucrezia is dead and can now escape from the horrible asylum, which eventually does succeed with the help of Gwen and the player in "Additional Investigation".

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Now, as for mitigating qualities or Freudian Excuse, Lucrezia Stein displays absolutely none whatsoever. The evidence is all in her actions and the way she just performs them, because she's just an irredeemably, abominably, and nightmarishly diabolical madwoman who performs all sorts of disgustingly repulsive and nauseating experiments on the patients, either as punishment for opposing her or simply For the Evulz, a.k.a. for the sickening pleasure and sadistic joy she might derive from performing said experiments.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Lucrezia is definitely a thousand times worse than the already extremely repulsive and depraved psychopath that is Shou Tucker from Fullmetal Alchemist, because in comparison, while Shou has rightfully cemented himself as one of the most hated anime characters because of his Lack of Empathy and complete lack of remorse on the sick experiments he has conducted on his family, those are only the atrocities that he's explicitly shown doing in the series and nothing else during his short appearance, but they're very monstrous and horrific nonetheless, while Lucrezia has already committed Cold-Blooded Torture, mass murder, Mind Rape, domestic abuse, child abuse, bullying, slavery and downright pure cruelty all over the course of her reign of terror during her management of the asylum.

But now, getting central to the main story, comparing to the heinousness of fellow CM characters in Criminal Case, Lucrezia Stein turns out to be much worse than Albert Tesla, Omar Bahir and Ayush Patil combined, and here are the comparisons:

- Whereas Albert Tesla wanted to destroy Pacific Bay because of the crime rate in order to remake it as a virtual utopia, which sounds like something a Well-Intentioned Extremist would do, he subverts it by wanting to destroy all of Pacific Bay regardless after Frank's murder is solved, proving him to be a hypocritical madman who only wants power for its own sake, and will destroy everyone and everything if something doesn't go according to his diabolical plans, Lucrezia is a simply a tyrannical dictator ruling the asylum an overarching iron fist and will torture inmates either for fun or for opposing her rule.

- Meanwhile, Omar Bahir is a ruthless warmonger trying to further SOMBRA's agenda of world domination and his main tactics involve manipulation, but at least subverts tiny little bits of his evilness with some charisma, whereas Lucrezia has no charisma or heart whatsoever to give her charm, and manipulates the inmates in a cold-blooded fashion.

- And finally, There's the very fact that Ayush Patil is mostly a depraved psycho who just wants to rule the world by unleashing a pandemic that will kill most of the world's population while the survivors lay down to his new era of terror and chaos, basically making Ayush a Generic Doomsday Villain with a Dystopia Justifies the Means agenda. Meanwhile, Lucrezia is just a devilish mad doctor whose "Dystopia Justifies the Means"-esque agenda of ruling over the asylum and inciting terror over the patients to continue wreaking havoc among them, even if it involves killing the patients.

Final Verdict?

It's an absolute yes, and some of my statements may be overblown, but it's only to emphasize the atrocities of the candidate I've chosen.

P.S.: My first request was of Ruth Wu, but turns out she isn't bad enough compared to villains like Albert Tesla or Denise Daniels, and my effort was just too little, which is why I ended up rejecting it.

I hope anyone approves of my request. [tup]

Edited by laar2002 on Sep 30th 2020 at 9:25:23 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
laar2002 Since: Mar, 2020
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#230816: Sep 30th 2020 at 8:50:00 PM

Uh, Ayush is not a GDV; he has a personality and a goal, but you could say that he is flat.

[tup] Lucrezia

Edited by AustinDR on Sep 30th 2020 at 9:17:32 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from The Daily Bugle (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
WoodsyGrabass2019 Jake the Snake from North Carolina Since: Jun, 2019 Relationship Status: In love with love
Jake the Snake
#230819: Sep 30th 2020 at 9:06:00 PM

Sure to Lucrezia.

Today's my mom's 39th birthday.

Also, I just wanna say that I'm looking through the "web original" section of the Monster trope page and I'm seeing some scary story videos that are either just as long as or a tiny bit shorter than the dark web one I posted a couple days ago.

I'm Surrounded by Idiots...
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#230820: Sep 30th 2020 at 9:13:42 PM

[up] The problem isn't really length, it's plot. We have a few keepers from short stories on Monster.Literature, for example. Happy Birthday to your mom, BTW.

[tup] to Lucrezia.

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Sep 30th 2020 at 9:14:19 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#230821: Sep 30th 2020 at 9:17:08 PM

Cautious [tup] to Lucrezia. However, I noticed that you had already posted a writeup on the YMMV page; typically, we do prefer to post the writeup here first so we can see if its too long, too clunky, etc.

Edited by MasterN on Sep 30th 2020 at 9:21:59 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#230822: Sep 30th 2020 at 9:17:12 PM

Yeah, there has to be a substantial plot.

WoodsyGrabass2019 Jake the Snake from North Carolina Since: Jun, 2019 Relationship Status: In love with love
Jake the Snake
#230823: Sep 30th 2020 at 9:46:57 PM

[up][up] Well in that case, I'd like to talk about the entry for Chief Irons. "Kidnapping Sherry and holding her hostage, he tries to gun her down once she escapes."

I don't seem to remember him pulling out a gun on her once throughout the orphanage sequence at all. He uses an axe at one point, but that's just to chop down a door. And if he catches her in the chase, the screen says "you're trapped" instead of "you're dead" (which is probably worse knowing Irons and I'd rather not think about what he's doing to her afterwards).

I'd change it to "he intends to hurt her as punishment for trying to escape him."

[up][up][up] and [down] Thanks!

EDIT: I just changed it.

Edited by WoodsyGrabass2019 on Sep 30th 2020 at 5:37:43 PM

I'm Surrounded by Idiots...
RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#230824: Sep 30th 2020 at 10:09:58 PM

[tup] Lucrezia.

Happy B-day #39 to Mdm Grabass!

Edited by RobertTYL on Oct 1st 2020 at 12:10:22 AM

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#230825: Sep 30th 2020 at 10:47:00 PM

[tup] to Lucrezia.

@WoodsyGrabass2019: Happy birthday to your mother.


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