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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#230751: Sep 30th 2020 at 12:19:32 PM

I guess we could call it "Beast's duology"? Beast, is there an official title?

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#230752: Sep 30th 2020 at 12:23:52 PM

Solid yes to Greeshawn. One more Acclaim-Valiant because I really wanna do this guy: from Garth Ennis' run on Shadowman, we have Tommy Lee Bones!

Who is Tommy Lee Bones? What has he done?

Tommy Lee Bones is the leader of the Dead Men, a group of dead criminals who manage to claw their way back to life from the Deadside and promptly start having themselves a fun time. Of course, what Tommy Lee Bones counts as a fun time is "murder," so he and the gang go rolling around New Orleans in a slick black car, singing the opening song from Dukes of Hazzard while murdering anyone who so much as breathes in his direction.

Tommy Lee Bones goes around slaughtering cops, gouging one's eyes out and decapitating one with a backhand so powerful it sends the cop's head flying, before tossing an exploding car into a building full of screaming innocents as his opening statement: "Tommy Lee Bones is back in town!"

Tommy Lee Bones continues to enjoy himself, running over a harmless old lady at top speed ("Watch out for that li'l old lady, Tommy Lee!" "Hell, thanks, Toss! Damn near missed her!") and killing another police officer by ramming him into a car, before his path takes him to a nearby police precinct. Tommy Lee sets up a deranged Kangaroo Court and starts executing the cops for any reason he can think of: by the time he's done, damn near every cop in the precinct is dead.

As Tommy Lee Bones entertains himself tormenting and eventually executing the final cop in the precinct, Shadowman himself arrives on the scene. A pitched fight ensues where Tommy Lee Bones unexpectedly gets the upper hand and rips out Shadowman's heart with his bare hands. Shadowman dies—but goes right to Deadside—as Tommy Lee Bones next arrives confronting a bartender ally of Shadowman's. With a knife.

Tommy Lee Bones and his goons torture the bartender for a long time, carving a game of Tic-Tac-Toe into his body with the knife and nearly even castrating him, before trying to kill him. Shadowman comes back onto the scene having managed to escape Deadside and finally manages to put Tommy Lee Bones down, where he and his Dead Men crumble to dust swearing they'll return.

Any mitigating factors?

I confess when I initially skimmed through this comic I might have undersold Tommy Lee Bones to myself—maybe on account of his name, or maybe the fact his character is about as goofily over-the-top a villain Ennis could write while still staying firmly in the realms of Narm Charm—but yeah, Tommy Lee Bones doesn't have a thing. He abuses his own goons (one of them had his eyes gouged out and replaced with cue balls by Tommy in a Noodle Incident in the past) and every second he's onscreen he's running over old ladies or massacring people. Even in the greater Acclaim universe, he stands out meatily.

Conclusion?

Hearty keeper. Probably the most unexpectedly entertaining find from Acclaim.

Edited by Scraggle on Sep 30th 2020 at 1:38:01 PM

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#230754: Sep 30th 2020 at 12:28:04 PM

Yes to him.

Edited by ACW on Sep 30th 2020 at 3:34:51 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#230755: Sep 30th 2020 at 12:41:15 PM

[tup]Tommy Lee bones

That name is amazing.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#230756: Sep 30th 2020 at 12:43:35 PM

[tup] to Tommy Lee Bones

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#230757: Sep 30th 2020 at 12:46:06 PM

Ennis writing Shadowman, ya don't say...yea

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#230758: Sep 30th 2020 at 12:49:22 PM

Normally, I'd say a bad guy described as "goofily over the top" would be too comedic for this trope... but this is Garth Ennis, so I'll give [tup] to Tommy Lee Bones. May he join the ranks of hilariously-named CMs like Fuckpig and the Bye Bye Man.

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Sep 30th 2020 at 12:54:01 PM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#230759: Sep 30th 2020 at 12:51:46 PM

[tup]Tommy Lee Bones (is that name a pun on Tommy Lee Jones?)

Also I think that image of him sitting with the dead bodies is a good image.

Edited by nwotyzal on Sep 30th 2020 at 12:58:28 PM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#230760: Sep 30th 2020 at 12:53:08 PM

[tup] to one of the silliest villain names around, Tommy Lee Bones.

It's Spooky Month!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#230762: Sep 30th 2020 at 1:30:09 PM

To answer ACW's question, no my "duology" doesn't have a proper title. I haven't thought of one for it yet.

Edited by Beast on Sep 30th 2020 at 1:31:05 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#230763: Sep 30th 2020 at 1:43:23 PM

[tup] Alexander, Greeshawn and Tommy Lee Bones. [tdown] Akan.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#230764: Sep 30th 2020 at 1:53:28 PM

Alright, I'll just call it Beast's Duology for now then [lol]

EDIT: Say, since it's part of the same universe (I THINK), should we add the Millennium candidates to the X-Files page? I mean, we have Constantine at the Arrowverse page, and that was retroactive.

Edited by ACW on Sep 30th 2020 at 5:02:13 AM

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#230765: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:01:32 PM

[tup]Alexander, Greeshawn and Tommy Lee Bones

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#230766: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:05:52 PM

[tup] Barbas, RED Soldier, Greg, Alexander, Greenshaw, Tommy

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#230767: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:13:28 PM

I want to post a non-horror EP before we get all spoopy starting tomorrow. I want to thank 43 for letting me take this one.

What Is the Work?

Genocyber is a 1992 manga by Tony Takezaki that everyone primarily knows for its outrageously graphic anime adaptation. The reason why many of you probably don’t know this? Because it only lasted one volume before getting cancelled. To say the anime differentiates from the manga is a huge understatement.

Elaine and Diana are two teenage sisters who both share a psychic connection with each other. Their father, Professor Morgan, is trying to figure out how strong the connection is with the help of his partner Kenneth Reed. Unfortunately for Morgan, Reed sells him and the girls out to a corporation that proceeds to mistreat them. Can Morgan save his girls and make a daring escape?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Who Is he?

Garnes Back is the development division manager of the weapon manufacturing company Tron Dynamic Corp. who seeks the girls for his own needs.

What has he done?

After his offer of funding Morgan’s experiments is rejected by the old man himself, Garnes has his men invade the laboratory and kidnap the girls and their father, with three guards dying in the process. But when Morgan once again refuses to collaborate, Garnes holds him at gunpoint, giving him the choice of either dying, or watching his daughters die first.

Garnes proceeds to allow Reed to perform painful, sadistic experiments on Elaine in order to awaken their psychic powers in order to find the link between the human subconscious with the computer, to the point where Elaine almost dies from so much experimentation. Diana also suffers knowing that she can't do anything to really save her contained sister. After a while, the sisters and Morgan launch an escape, but they’re cornered by Garnes, who attempts to use the knocked out Elaine as leverage. But Diana gets Elaine to use her psychic powers to causes all of Garnes’ men’s guns to go off. Diana’s launched out of the building as a result and falls to her doom.

And that’s where the manga ends. A cliffhanger that will never get resolved. The anime on the other hand…

Redeeming Qualities?

Zero. While Garnes doesn’t want Diana or Elaine to die, it’s because he wants to keep their experiments going. He has little care for his employees, and treats Reed like shit because he’s a dick like that.

Heinousness?

The manga’s heinous standard is the exact opposite of the anime’s. Because it’s so short, there’s barely a chance for any other villains to really do anything. Like Kenneth Reed, who’s just a standard douche bag compared to Garnes. There’s also three robots in the prologue who kill five businessmen in creative ways, but that’s all they do before getting killed by Genocyber (the title monster's only appearance in the manga btw).

Side note here, but I find it interesting that many state how Reed was nicer in the manga. Yeah, he’s not as evil as his anime counterpart, but the manga version has a different design. Reed’s anime design was based on Morgan’s, and they just slapped Reed’s name onto him for no real reason.

While the graphic violence and utter bleakness from the anime is largely absent (aside from a few crazy drawings and some bloody violence in the prologue), Garnes I think can still pull it off thanks to allowing a minor to be painfully experimented on/tortured for scientific purposes, and the few deaths he allowed his men to commit in order to attain the psychic sisters.

Conclusion

Bare keep. If this were the anime, Garnes wouldn’t count. But because it isn’t, I think Garnes might have a fair shot.

It's Spooky Month!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#230768: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:17:25 PM

Sure to Manga!Morgan. For Reed, should we change the entry from "in contrast to his kindhearted manga counterpart" to something like "even worse than his manga counterpart" or something?

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#230769: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:18:27 PM

[up] Manga!Morgan? Don't you mean Garnes?

And yeah, I think we can that line from Kenneth's entry to the latter.

It's Spooky Month!
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#230770: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:18:55 PM

[tup] to Garnes.

Question regarding the possibility of Pragmatic Villainy as a disqualifying factor: how pragmatic is too pragmatic?

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Sep 30th 2020 at 2:19:26 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#230771: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:19:03 PM

Shit, yes I do...yes to whoever it was you just proposed [lol]

Also, if we DO move Millennium to X-Files, we may need a new header. Something like...The truth is out there. So are numerous monsters, several of whom are all the more frightning because of how mundane they seem.

Edited by ACW on Sep 30th 2020 at 5:24:31 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#230772: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:26:08 PM

[tup]Garnes

[up]Why do we need to move it. X files is apparently in the same universe as the wire but we're not rushing to add Marlo to that page.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#230773: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:26:31 PM

Yes to Barbas, the RED soldier, Greg, Alexander, Greeshawn, Tommy Lee Bones, and Garnes.

No to Akan.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#230774: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:27:34 PM

What's the difference between, say, Millennium and X-Files and, say, Constantine and Arrowverse?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#230775: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:28:35 PM

Because Constantine became a Major part of it. Legends pretty much counties the plot of most of his show.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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