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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#229901: Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:12:12 PM

I think it's more down to Early-Installment Weirdness than anything, cause the concern he shows in that clip certainly feels more genuine than the "Bruce!" quote for the governor we just saw. But I'm fine with him staying.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#229902: Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:18:06 PM

Keep Jonas, but it was good of you to bring him up.

WoodsyGrabass2019 Since: Jun, 2019 Relationship Status: In love with love
#229903: Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:18:57 PM

Guys I'm sorry for the overreaction, I'm just tired of discussing people who are objectively awful human beings online (not just tvtropes) and life/people somehow finding some way to make me feel like I'm in the wrong. It's not just the Governor; it's Hate Sinks and sociopaths in general.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#229904: Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:23:10 PM

Keep Jonas.

[up] We understand. This sort of discussion can be taxing. Many of us occasionally withdraw from the thread at various points.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#229905: Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:25:55 PM

Not qualifying for Complete Monster, Hate Sink or The Sociopath doesn’t mean the character isn’t objectively a terrible person either.

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#229906: Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:26:48 PM

I tried to cover everything I possibly could in Jonas' effort post. He was definitely my all time favorite post and the one I put the most work into. I certainly felt passionate about his inclusion and went out of my way to cover all my bases.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#229907: Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:27:51 PM

@Woodsy: You're not 'in the wrong,' you're bringing genuinely debatable cases to a thread whose purpose is to evaluate them. Sometimes we just have good faith disagreements, it's nothing to be upset about.

WoodsyGrabass2019 Since: Jun, 2019 Relationship Status: In love with love
#229908: Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:34:10 PM

As I said, it's not just tvtropes. I get tons of shit mainly on Youtube and Reddit.

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#229909: Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:36:13 PM

Speaking of Early-Installment Weirdness, I remember Megabyte giving Enzo a gift for his birthday in season 1 before the later seasons had him drop any redeeming qualities he supposedly had.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#229910: Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:36:19 PM

Well....youtube and reddit are a cesspool in a lot of places. Try not to let it get to you.

I promise you we're not like that in this thread at least.

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#229911: Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:38:52 PM

[up][up][up]Having been a part of You Tube for years, and still am to this date, I can understand, it can be... toxic sometimes. Nevertheless, like Lighty said, don't let that or Reddit get to you.

Edited by Michealthehero21 on Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:47:04 AM

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#229912: Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:44:15 PM

I find fictional villains tons of fun but am SO exasperated by how loud and inescapable real-life shitty people have become in recent years. No, I don't get it either. tongue

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#229913: Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:50:56 PM

Because fictional villains usually eventually get their comeuppance well real life bad guys.....uh well.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
WoodsyGrabass2019 Since: Jun, 2019 Relationship Status: In love with love
#229914: Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:52:54 PM

I have OCD so I can't really help it if I get emotional sometimes.

Also, I was planning on making an A.U. fanfiction for the video game Until Dawn and asking if you think the villain in my story could qualify as a CM once I was finished, but since it was already mentioned a few pages back that it doesn't work like that I guess I can't now...

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#229915: Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:53:16 PM

But I REALLY like Dark Is Not Evil characters (see avatar).

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#229916: Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:56:15 PM

[up][up] We don't have a problem with a troper work having a CM. The problem is with deliberately writing a CM solely so you can have a character up. If you're not writing it with that intent, I don't think we have a problem.

[up] Who's your avatar, by the way?

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#229917: Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:57:47 PM

[up] Reign-Beaux, Overlord of Dark World from Yu-Gi-Oh, the leader of a society of exceptionally affable and honorable demons.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#229918: Sep 22nd 2020 at 4:14:07 PM

By the way, have we ever looked at 24 (India)? Wouldn't be surprised if that show had at least one keeper.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#229919: Sep 22nd 2020 at 4:14:42 PM

[up][up][up] Sure, I'll give it a read.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#229920: Sep 22nd 2020 at 4:16:14 PM

So 24 has an Indian adaptation, Criminal Minds has a Korean adaptation, and Spider Man went to Japan—this thread opens up my knowledge to some really weird foreign avenues.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#229921: Sep 22nd 2020 at 4:19:13 PM

[up] There are also two Indian remakes of Hush.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#229922: Sep 22nd 2020 at 4:20:22 PM

Hey bollywood remakes every successful film. I know that as a lifelong fan.

[up]Would The man count in those too.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#229923: Sep 22nd 2020 at 4:22:51 PM

I don't know. I haven't seen either of them.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#229924: Sep 22nd 2020 at 4:25:59 PM

Well according to this. It seems The man survives and possibly wins in the remake which sucks.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#229925: Sep 22nd 2020 at 4:30:03 PM

[up] Which one? You said there are at least two.

Now that I think about it, I wouldn't be surprised if Indian films had a gold mine of untapped keepers.


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