During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
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We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
to Thackeray.
Thackeray. I mean, I can understand being upset over losing your company...but trying to start a war??? Yeah...And hell, it doesn't seem like it's played sympathetically at ALL.
For Facts of Death, I'm curious...so her being raped is played as a Freudian Excuse for her actions? And what's her boss's redeeming quality.
While I am encouraged by the good number of upvotes, I do see some dissenting opinions on Ishii and I will address these.
It is true that the trope and Wiki page for the movie glosses over the subplots I mentioned. But, as @Dr Unknown said, it is no substitute for watching the film. I've watched it twice to get as good an understanding as I could. So, breaking things down, minute by minute:
- The first twenty four minutes are dedicated to Ishii's return to the unit and the Youth Corps getting acquainted with their new environment.
- From the twenty five minute mark to the thirty and a half minute mark alternates again between the Youth Corps and Ishii restructuring the unit. An atrocity scene overlaps here, but it is not terrible graphic (a man is beaten).
- The thirty and a half and thirty one and a half minute mark introduces the maruta characters.
- From the thirty eight minute mark to the fifty third minute mark, nothing graphic happens. Some marutas die in bio-warfare experiments, but there is no Gorn. The different plots and subplots are given varying amounts of focus.
- There are a fair few amount of atrocity scenes mixed in with plot scenes from here on out. Some of these aren't very graphic, others are the most brutal parts of the film. Physically counting which parts are bloodless and which parts contain violence, I counted about twenty nine minutes of normal footage, give or take a minute. This ends at the hour and a half minute mark.
- The last ten minutes are mostly bloodless, and the last scene of violence holds no Gorn.
The movie is one hour and forty minutes. Tallying up my count, eighty four and a half minutes, or one hour and twenty four minutes, contain no extremely violent footage. In other words, the atrocity scenes make up a clear minority of the film.
If anyone would like to see for themselves, PM me and I will share a copy.
Edited by ThePest179 on Sep 15th 2020 at 10:25:18 AM
My issue still is that everything else seems to exist to create the gut punch for said gorn scenes. I could live with people feeling it's enough to call a "substantial plot" but it's an exploitation film that pretends to be imparting historical knowledge that I just see as existing to pump out these disgusting scenes in the name of edgieness. There's been a litany of controversy following it I'm not really interested in getting into but I'm just going to leave it at my vote isn't changing.
There’s a difference between movies like Cannibal Holocaust or The Girl Next Door, which are brutal and disgusting, but have a full-fledged plot beyond that, to just plain torture porn without any reason behind it.
Edited by nwotyzal on Sep 15th 2020 at 10:38:02 AM
"I'm curious...so her being raped is played as a Freudian Excuse for her actions?"
I can think of like one case where someone with such a backstory did not do so. There's an additional comic one listed as well I don't really agree with but last time it was discussed was before I was here and I think it just turned into a shit show.
BTW, since the mods want the sandbox swappings one day a week, Tuesdays work for everyone? I'll post the batches here Sunday, do Imperial's potholes and such later that day or Monday, get any possible late additions Monday, then submit Tuesday morning?
43, you're doing the MB stuff Wednesdays, right?
